AIBU to think that we need to stop “hiding” from covid

[Belle82]

I know I will get some very strong opinions about this but please hear me out.

I am fully vaccinated, and for those who are not that is their own choice, with the exception of the immunocompromised.

The recent omicron strain is not as dangerous as the first it is simply spreading faster, causing there to be more admissions to hospital.
However 90% of people in hospital with covid have not been vaccinated.
Of course a % of this would be those too young to have the vaccine and some are immunocompromised.

I am more than happy to keep the restrictions in place to protect the children and the immunocompromised.
However any RSV infection or Flu is much more dangerous to those two groups than Omicron is, but there is no mention of those from the government.

However I don’t think it’s right that there are blanket restrictions to protect the (by choice) non vaccinated. You make that decision knowing the risks so why should we all be restricted to protect those people.

My family currently have covid, and our symptoms only lasted for 3 days, very mild. Although, we maybe lucky, everyone I speak to has either had it or knows someone who has and they have all said the same regarding symptoms.

My question is, if we are not going to quarantine and test for the more dangerous viruses, like the flu, then why are we asked to quarantine and take tests everyday for omicron that is (for most people) a 3-5 day cold?

Withdrawal and imposition of restrictions is unavoidably political anyway, in a democracy. What we've seen in the last few weeks in the UK, a government that couldn't impose any more restrictions even if it wanted to because of the attitude of part of the legislature and the behaviour of the population, is one of the most obvious examples of that. It's far from the only one.

There are ways in which it isn't ideal, but the alternative of living in a country where the regime doesn't have to worry about political concerns is worse.

"I also sense across Ireland, uk, US and some of Europe that the narrative is now changing"

Yes, because the impact of the virus is changing. Measures to control previous variants are no longer effective or necessary with Omicron. This does not mean measures weren't necessary in the past or won't be again in the future, but right now, in places where Omicron is dominant, it's appropriate to relax restrictions.

@containsnuts

"I also sense across Ireland, uk, US and some of Europe that the narrative is now changing"

Yes, because the impact of the virus is changing. Measures to control previous variants are no longer effective or necessary with Omicron. This does not mean measures weren't necessary in the past or won't be again in the future, but right now, in places where Omicron is dominant, it's appropriate to relax restrictions.

Some measures were necessary in the past, a great many measures were not.

That is very true but I also sense across Ireland, uk, US and some of Europe that the narrative is now changing

Agreed. There have been a few high profile turnarounds like this one ...

www.theguardian.com/profile/devi-sridhar

Omicron has changed the situation significantly, but it's also offered an opportunity for commentators to climb down from previous pedestals. The measures we have taken were never sustainable long term.

I think it's a false dichotomy to say either get back to normal or have heavy restrictions.

I'm following medical advice to keep shielding as much as possible, given family members have to go to school and work, and I have to go to hospital. I gave up work because of risk already and just do zoom, or outside meeting with people.

I am hopeful that the government will soon follow other countries in giving preventative pre infection treatment (Astra Zenica monoclonals evushield) to the immunocompromised groups where vaccines don't work. We are the only group left unprotected, even though we are at most risk.They are injectable 6 monthly, and give good protection.

I think this should happen before isolation for covid is ended at the end of March. This should prevent many admissions and deaths, and allow people to get back to work and public life.

Prior to this pandemic I had a normal working life, socialising, exercise classes, travel. Levels of flu and chicken pox etc aren't high in community and flu jabs work for most. I never was warned like I am now by nurses and doctors.

Even the government has said very vulnerable (cev) people should continue to follow the guidelines issued on the 24th Dec, after plan b is lifted. They have just forgotten to tell us. It wasn't said at the news conference. It came to light when the gov were questioned by a peer if they had considered what cev should do. Most of the charities for blood cancer, kidney care, rare diseases etc with immunosuppressed members are trying to get that message out.

Here's the independent article link if anyone is interested. t.co/avNYQXi4tI

Also 'cowering' is a horrible word to use when someone is faced with genuine threat to their life. Did anyone say that to people on chemo before the government coined the phrase? I prefer being extremely careful. I like my life and plan to stick around. I'm not ill, my drugs keep me well but I can't not take them or I will definitely die over time.

Correction op said 'hiding' but it has the same connotations as if it's somehow pathetic to be anxious. We are all here because fear has helped our ancestors survive all sorts of threats.

@Frankii

Personally I don't think "living with covid" means "let's pretend it's not a problem and forget all precautions". Not yet anyway.

Obviously others disagree though.

Absolutely

The “we have to learn to live with it” brigade don’t seem to be able to take into account that some ways of “living with it” are to wear masks in some situations, cleaning hands, not standing right in someone’s face, taking a test etc

@Blubells

If omicron isn't a problem why are people still being hospitalised with it?

Nobody has claimed that Omicron is no problem, only that Omicron is thankfully only a small problem. Hospitalisations are way lower than feared!

And as Omicron is only a 'small' problem, we need to justify the high costs of the various restrictions on peoples lives

Cases in the trust I work in are high just like any of the lockdowns and other variants. As are other local trusts Icu is not affected in the same way as some of those cases are those that are positive but in hospital for something else, but we are still bloody busy with covid due to the high case numbers.

There are positives two years down the line of course: It may be less brutal ( not mild!) but omicron is still covid. It can still cause illness in many. Yes we’ve better treatments and understanding, we’ve vaccines but their effectiveness isn’t certain with evolving variants that move away from the original that they were produced for.

However we are still finding out the long term effects it can have on us. We know about flu we’ve had time to study it: we know what it does, don’t compare it to covid because its not novel and certainly not the same illness.

We are all fed up. I hate wearing masks it hinders communication, PPE is hot and uncomfortable when wearing it for hours on end. Hate that covid looms heavy over most things we do in hospital. Green wards/red wards/swabs/staff sickness, distancing, infection control, PPE. Unfortunately that doesn’t make it go away, ignoring it and stopping isolation/testing is a very risky strategy from this government and far too soon when cases are still high.

Think about people like me, housebound, Ecv, still haven't been given third (not booster) jab despite ringing doctors weekly. Even my 83 year old mum has been given her booster. I'm terrified of ds bringing Covid home despite him being triple jabbed.

The “we have to learn to live with it” brigade don’t seem to be able to take into account that some ways of “living with it” are to wear masks in some situations, cleaning hands, not standing right in someone’s face, taking a test etc

I’ve done all that and can’t be bothered to continue, haven’t bothered for ages. Mask wearing is, generally, useless and unenforceable. Selfish, sociopath, think what you like about me. There’s no going back from Thursday for England, the government know this.

There’s no going back from Thursday for England, the government know this.

More false dichotomy.

Maybe more measures will be needed, maybe they won't. Maybe it will be manageable but we'll need winter policies in place for the next couple of years.

Managing a pandemic requires a proactive, flexible approach and these kinds of statements are ridiculous.

@riveted1

There’s no going back from Thursday for England, the government know this.

More false dichotomy.

Maybe more measures will be needed, maybe they won't. Maybe it will be manageable but we'll need winter policies in place for the next couple of years.

Managing a pandemic requires a proactive, flexible approach and these kinds of statements are ridiculous.

If there are winter restrictions again (which of course means no lockdowns) do you really think the majority of the public will comply, especially after the past couple of weeks? If so, keep dreaming.

The “we have to learn to live with it” brigade don’t seem to be able to take into account that some ways of “living with it” are to wear masks in some situations, cleaning hands, not standing right in someone’s face, taking a test etc

I’ve done all that and can’t be bothered to continue, haven’t bothered for ages

You stand right in people's faces and don't clean your hands?

That'd be pretty disgusting even if there wasn't a pandemic!

If there are winter restrictions again (which of course means no lockdowns) do you really think the majority of the public will comply, especially after the past couple of weeks? If so, keep dreaming.

Measures =/= restrictions, nor do they equal lockdowns

There are loads of policies that can be implemented (that don't necessarily rely on compliance) that could be used to reduce surges during at risk times.

Living with COVID means proactively managing it along with other infectious diseases, not pretending it doesn't exist.

‘Having to’ wear a mask is a restriction. Compliance now is fairly low, what do you think it’ll be like in January 2023 after another year of restriction fatigue if the mandate comes into ‘force’ again?

@SmashingBIouse

The “we have to learn to live with it” brigade don’t seem to be able to take into account that some ways of “living with it” are to wear masks in some situations, cleaning hands, not standing right in someone’s face, taking a test etc

I’ve done all that and can’t be bothered to continue, haven’t bothered for ages

You stand right in people's faces and don't clean your hands?

That'd be pretty disgusting even if there wasn't a pandemic!

I’ve always been a regular hand washer. How about you?

I certainly wasn’t doing it 20 times or something when cases were high.

@southeastdweller

‘Having to’ wear a mask is a restriction. Compliance now is fairly low, what do you think it’ll be like in January 2023 after another year of restriction fatigue if the mandate comes into ‘force’ again?

.... I didn't specifically mention masks.

However, requring them in certain situations like hospitals, could be an example of one policy reinstated during a Winter surge.

As I said, living with COVID means proactively managing it, not pretending it doesn't exist.

There is little point in the restrictions and testing etc if it doesn't extend to young children too. Half my colleagues were off last week with covid because we work in a nursery where children don't need to be tested and parents are happy to risk the health of everyone else by bringing in poorly children. Just because they don't get too poorly doesn't mean the adults caring for them don't. And yet then we have to mess about with masks to pop into a socially distanced environment later in the day. The NHS isn't going to be overwhelmed by this new variant but by everyone insisting that they are vaccinated with a jab they don't want just yet. Everything seems crazy right now and doesn't make any sense half the time.

If we don't have to test or isolate and people are coerced into having a jab then everything should go back to some kind of normality soon.

@SmashingBIouse

And how many school staff/children are vulnerable or live with people who are?

The problem with this approach is that it only works if we think we can realistically permanently prevent Covid from spreading through schools by through all this isolation and that things are "under control" now.

It's surely obvious by now that this is completely unrealistic... And that all the isolation does is string the whole thing out, extending disruption rather than minimising it. It doesn't reduce the risk at all, it just spreads the same risk over a longer period.

Do you seriously think that once the teacher and eight pupils have returned (as per example which you were referring to), the remaining 22 are now "safe" (assuming they've not had it before)? Of course not, they'll be another outbreak with days or weeks affecting another group.

The easiest way for those that are vulnerable to be protected is to allow Covid to spread through schools quickly and thoroughly when it arrives, and for pupils who are CEV (or have CEV people at home) to remain at home (and be provided with work as someone isolating for Covid would have) for a few weeks whilst this occurs. For this to work, isolation would need to stop and for it to be treated like we would a cold or flu - ie if you're well enough, you go in.

This wouldn't provide permanent immunity, but would mean that the schools was a much safer environment until the start of the next school year (or maybe another omicron-type variant comes along).

@southeastdweller

I’ve always been a regular hand washer. How about you?

Yep. Several times a day, sanitiser while I'm out and about with additional hand washing if I can, always as soon as I get home, always before I eat/handle food etc. It's drummed into when you're CEV - I first took immunosuppressant drugs in 2012 and the habit has never left me.

And yes, I did wash my hands before then just not quite as often through the day.

And yet then we have to mess about with masks to pop into a socially distanced environment later in the day.

A supermarket is about the only place I HAVE to wear a mask. I can go to busy restaurants, cinemas, concerts, theatres, gyms, dance classes etc etc etc. So no, it's not just in schools that no masks are worn. It's almost everywhere.

My dds school class is currently shut, home learning again. Yet every child has got it anyway during the two weeks. It's pure theatrics.

@Adatwistscientist

My dds school class is currently shut, home learning again. Yet every child has got it anyway during the two weeks. It's pure theatrics.

In which case the class will probably be free til at least the autumn term now...

Hope your children are not in exam years!!