Page 4 | Schools banned from requiring masks unless Zahawi says otherwise

RocketFire7 · 2022-01-21T08:13:37+00:00

Interesting news this morning that Nadhim Zahawi has banned schools or local public health chiefs from requiring masks without his personal approval. Personally I think this is good news as there was a concern that individual headteachers may cause issues for political reasons. [[https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/17385033/plan-to-stop-kids-being-back-into-masks/]]

ClaudiaWankleman · 21/01/2022 10:23

Does it mention whether free choice is gone for individual?

This is more on a school basis, so choice is increased if not requested for all. If you want to I don’t see why not, but less likely all will be requested to wear it

Sorry @MarshaBradyo I don't understand what you mean - can you rephrase?

MarshaBradyo · 21/01/2022 10:25

@ClaudiaWankleman

Does it mention whether free choice is gone for individual?

This is more on a school basis, so choice is increased if not requested for all. If you want to I don’t see why not, but less likely all will be requested to wear it

Sorry @MarshaBradyo I don't understand what you mean - can you rephrase?

Claudia I meant this part

I think it should be absolute free choice for students and teachers to wear a mask as they feel appropriate, as it should be in wider society.

I think the free choice for the individual will stay?

It just won’t be up to schools to implement without further approval

EvilPea · 21/01/2022 10:28

I don’t know if free choice for all will stay. One MP was asking for masks to be actively banned in schools

EvilPea · 21/01/2022 10:29

It’s not just the vulnerable pupils they are throwing under the bus it’s teachers.

sashagabadon · 21/01/2022 10:39

@EvilPea

I don’t know if free choice for all will stay. One MP was asking for masks to be actively banned in schools

Why would the government actively outright ban masks though? I don’t think many would support that position (I’ll join your gang arguing against

) I guess an issue might be if a teacher can’t be heard properly by the class and parents complained but a microphone might solve that particular issue. I guess an individual Head teacher might go further than the government and actively ban masks for teachers when teaching. I can imagine that happening. But then we trust Heads on here as they know their schools best so we’d all be happy with that

ClaudiaWankleman · 21/01/2022 10:51

I think the free choice for the individual will stay? It just won’t be up to schools to implement without further approval

That is my understanding too. I do think pupils should be allowed to choose and supported in whatever choice they make.

I would be concerned that bullying/ peer pressure/ social forces will mean some pupils don't really have a choice as to whether they wear one or not and that could be to their detriment. That issue is absolutely not restricted to mask wearing though, it's endemic in most things at school I think.

sashagabadon · 21/01/2022 10:58

That’s very true Claudia and possible in schools and is bullying and school should deal appropriately and quickly and I would be very cross/ disappointed in my son if he was a perpetrator. ( I doubt he would be)
But it’s not a good enough argument for mandating masks in classrooms for everyone imo.

Sherrystrull · 21/01/2022 11:05

It's clearly political. They must have numbers of children and staff in schools with covid. Everyone I know who currently has covid is either a child at school, a parent of a child at school or a member of school staff. So many cases across lots of schools in our area.

Newnamemsz · 21/01/2022 15:07

@Blubells

an attempt to be popular while gambling with children's health

Gambling with children's health? By forcing them to wear masks all day? By letting them sit 3 hour mock exams with glasses steaming up?

Not sure anyone has required hospital treatment for steamed up glasses or mask wearing.

herecomesthsun · 21/01/2022 15:32

I thought there were extensive arrangements for children with exemptions, anyway?

Eccle80 · 21/01/2022 15:44

I don’t see why individual schools shouldn’t be able to make judgements of what are sensible measures for their situation at a point in time. My year 8’s school have said they are keeping them in classrooms for now due to case numbers in the school, but will review and remove the requirement as soon as they can. When I told him, he said unprompted that it was sensible, about 20% of his year currently have Covid, another year have had to go to online learning for a few days, and cases throughout are high. It makes sense for them to try what they can to mitigate spread

LilyPond2 · 21/01/2022 16:45

Whichever way you look at it, the government's approach to mask wearing in schools makes no sense whatsoever! If the government doesn't believe that mask wearing in schools reduces transmission, why did it order people to wear masks in schools for the past few weeks?? On the other hand, if the government does believe mask wearing in schools reduces transmission, why attempt to stop it simultaneously in all schools when different areas are at different stages of the Omicron wave and in some areas infection rates are still rising rather than falling?

Sowhatifiam · 21/01/2022 17:16

Sod the vulnerable kids and teachers, eh? Just sod ‘em.

HariboMaroon · 21/01/2022 17:29

@Sowhatifiam

Vulnerable teachers? Are people still trotting out this line after a third vaccine? Good lord, anyone would think they’re shackled to their desks in chains. Thankfully it’s just mumsnet whereby you witness this hysteria.

And as for vulnerable kids? Were they there prior to 2020? That’s an unfortunate yes. It’s astonishing how much emphasis people place on mask efficacy. My kids have caught covid in schools with and without masks.

Move on people.

herecomesthsun · 21/01/2022 17:43

My DC had to start taking immunosuppressants last year & will be having a booster next month as immunosuppressed etc. because of his meds.

Believe me, you wouldn't know he has a health condition to look at him, he is tall and has a muscular build.

3 of my children's teachers are CEV, it turned out.

Why shouldn't our children and their teachers have a workplace that is well ventilated and has infection control?

walksen · 21/01/2022 17:57

I can't see how this is a real issue other then headline news for the government in operation save Boris.

Masks have only ever been recommended in schools and as such their use is unenforceable anyway and always has been.

You only have to think about what happened when masks in shops was changed to recommended to get a sense of how many people are wearing them in schools.

Blubells · 21/01/2022 18:02

Why shouldn't our children and their teachers have a workplace that is well ventilated and has infection control?

But ARE masks an effective form of infection control?
And do the benefits (if they indeed exist) outweigh the costs in terms of difficulty understanding others (not only for the hard of hearing)?

KeepingAnOpenMind · 21/01/2022 18:08

Children should not be wearing masks all day, it’s inhumane.

bringmelaughter · 21/01/2022 18:11

@Crackingowlsanctuary

I’m very happy to hear this. The most recent evidence shows there are minimal benefits to them and individual children still have the choice to wear them if they wish.

Please can you post the evidence that masks have minimal benefits. There are good publications demonstrating that an effective mask such as ffp2 minimises transmission: www.pnas.org/content/118/49/e2110117118

I’ve attached a great graphic from the same group which includes data for omicron transmission.

Schools banned from requiring masks unless Zahawi says otherwise

JanuaryBluehoo · 21/01/2022 18:11

I'm amazed at the seemingly 100% mask compliance oft quoted on here.. Non of my dc school nor mine can enforce any at all!!

JanuaryBluehoo · 21/01/2022 18:12

But when they do it does stop spit in one's face.

Sowhatifiam · 21/01/2022 18:20

Vulnerable teachers? Are people still trotting out this line after a third vaccine?

Have you been in a school recently? Seen the rate of transmission? That’s with vaccines? Why on Earth should school staff have to put up with that when there a bit of ventilation and mask wearing can help improve that?

And as for vulnerable kids? Were they there prior to 2020? That’s an unfortunate yes

Not your child then, I take it? Not your child with a condition that throughout the pandemic has been named as an underlying issue that causes problems when mixed with covid? No empathy whatsoever for how that might feel, both for the child concerned and their family? Why would you not support reducing possible transmission if you could? Because you think the only thing that matters is you?

BrambleRoses · 21/01/2022 18:24

Transmission and actually being at risk are different things.

There is a difference between ‘will I be very unwell with Covid’ and ‘will I get Covid’.

Bizawit · 21/01/2022 18:32

@Sowhatifiam

Vulnerable teachers? Are people still trotting out this line after a third vaccine?

Have you been in a school recently? Seen the rate of transmission? That’s with vaccines? Why on Earth should school staff have to put up with that when there a bit of ventilation and mask wearing can help improve that?

And as for vulnerable kids? Were they there prior to 2020? That’s an unfortunate yes

Not your child then, I take it? Not your child with a condition that throughout the pandemic has been named as an underlying issue that causes problems when mixed with covid? No empathy whatsoever for how that might feel, both for the child concerned and their family? Why would you not support reducing possible transmission if you could? Because you think the only thing that matters is you?

Because COVID is a mild illness if you have been triple vaccinated.

I thought that all children had been removed from the CEV category a long while back.

cantkeepawayforever · 21/01/2022 18:33

It’s worth pointing out that Heads have individual responsibility for the health and safety of everyone on their site under H&S legislation, which is not (as I understand it) trumped by Covid guidance. Therefore a head can - indeed legally must - put in place measures that are needed to protect the health and safety of employees, visitors and others. This could include masks if the risk assessment justifies it.

I do not think that the Education Secretary should be putting himself in a position where he is attempting to over-ride H&S law and responsibilities….,