Masks in classrooms secondary

[Hummmmming]

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/01/schools-in-england-told-wear-masks-in-class-as-fears-mount-of-omicron-surge?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Until the 26th of January

There you go again, @mumsneedwine . Just wanting schools to close.

And masks outside a clinical setting are NOT “completely useless”. 3 layered cloth masks or surgical masks* will reduce transmission and the risk of serious illness. Plenty of evidence shows this.

*Yes, I’m going to suggest using surgical masks given out for kids who need them, as ds is still ill after catching covid 21 months ago and I hate the amount of rubbish masks generate and what they do to the planet but I also hate to see ds in pain every day and have uncontrolled spread of an illness that can do that to other kids.

And if masks in schools don’t seem to have worked in Scotland, why have they worked in places like Italy and Japan? What else are they doing that we could also be doing?

@AlecTrevelyan006

This is union driven. They have been quietly making their 'demands' and if they were honest would prefer schools to be shut altogether:

neu.org.uk/advice/omicron-neu-response

Masks are still (wrongly in my view) considered to be popular and low cost. Their use in schools is only a recommendation, so it is essentially voluntary. That means that the Govt can concede this point to the unions without needing any discussion in parliament.

Parents should simply tell the school that their kids are exempt. But most won't, because they are now fully indoctrinated in the 'idea' that face coverings are effective and they are scared that their children will bring omicron into the house.

Even the right wing press are not attributing this to the unions! Surely by now, most people know that the teaching unions (there are more than one) have had no say in what happens

That article is from the beginning of December in response to the DforE already giving guidance for Secondary schools in England to wear masks in communal areas such as corridors, due to the rising number of cases and low success rate of their vaccination program in 12+.

However, I defy anyone to actually read that link and think that the suggestions are outrageously unreasonable, as measures to try to keep schools open.

Either way, if the NEU had any clout, those measures would have also been announced too.

At DS's school (not UK) pupils and teachers have worn FFP2 masks in school for the best part of last year and will continue to do so (exceptions: the medically exempt and certain situations). They also do supervised LTF tests (pupils and teachers) at least 3 times a week - more after holidays.
Headmaster sends a weekly email announcing the number of cases (3 pupils, 1 teacher), the current status (green = f2f) and updates the hygiene guidelines for lessons, staff meetings, subjects, extracuricular activities etc.

Scotland never stopped. My son doesn't seemed remotely bothered by it.

Anything to stop home schooling hell.

@DaisyMum40

You've been posting for months about how masks (in your opinion) don't work.
As your opinion has been largely debunked by facts, (nobody is saying masks alone prevent spread, but proper masks, correctly worn and other sensible mitigations most definitely do) you've moved on to saving the planet?

Behave.

@CallmeHendricks

"Many schools here have indicated its adults passing to children and other adults and not the other way around."

What is your evidence for this? How many schools? Where? How did they measure and communicate this "fact?"

it's easy to spot the pure bollocks isn't it?

I've noticed the word 'muzzle' making a come-back too...

I'd rather have secondary schools closed for a couple of months than bring this in, just thinking of the children's comfort.

Are you a pupil or a teacher?

I bet most pupils would much prefer to be in school, even if they need to wear a mask?

In other words, being in school (especially for exam years 11 and 13) Is way more important than putting up with the discomfort of wearing a mask.

Eagerly awaiting the comeback of “face nappies”, I’ve missed it so much!

What should also be noted is that this has been communicated to schools and heads via a leak to the Sunday press on a bank holiday weekend just before schools reopen.

The govt really do treat headteachers badly. I thought with Gav gone things might improve on that front, but it's clearly policy.

@noblegiraffe
I certainly think the bat signal has gone out this morning.
So far three threads of utter tosh and conspiracy theories have been deleted (that I'm aware of)
Advanced Search is useful to see they've been at it for months in most cases.

@noblegiraffe

What should also be noted is that this has been communicated to schools and heads via a leak to the Sunday press on a bank holiday weekend just before schools reopen.

The govt really do treat headteachers badly. I thought with Gav gone things might improve on that front, but it's clearly policy.

I suppose it's like any big organisation. The culture at the top trickles down.

Although, putting like that makes Boris and the cabinet sound like runny yoghurt.

[quote PAFMO]@DaisyMum40

You've been posting for months about how masks (in your opinion) don't work.
As your opinion has been largely debunked by facts, (nobody is saying masks alone prevent spread, but proper masks, correctly worn and other sensible mitigations most definitely do) you've moved on to saving the planet?

Behave.[/quote]
Perhaps that is the point though? Masks in other public settings (shops, public transport) do work, but in secondary schools kids are mixing with each other without masks anyway - at lunch, on the bus etc. It’s not that masks don’t work but that the advantages don’t outweigh the disadvantages in this particular setting.

And lots of kids aren’t wearing them properly/fiddle with them etc.

With regard to fans in classroom I'm pretty sure guidance is they are not allowed.
It's certainly on our risk assessment from our LEA.

All this from the gov is just a crap, meaningless, token gesture that costs them nothing and justifies them saying schools are safe.
Just like the carbon monoxide monitors. I know the ventilation is shit - thanks. What should I do about it?

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch

Although, putting like that makes Boris and the cabinet sound like runny yoghurt.

😂

We've had this in Scotland for some time now, most pupils just get on with it.

secondary schools kids are mixing with each other without masks anyway - at lunch, on the bus etc. It’s not that masks don’t work but that the advantages don’t outweigh the disadvantages in this particular setting.
They'll have to wear them on school transport

I wondered what was driving it

Have you not heard of omicron? Bloody hell.

@Makingnumber2

Have a look at Cambridge masks- they sell FFP2 masks which have air filters in and can be worn for a certain number of hours before needing to be disposed (it’s a lot of hours- like weeks worth). I bought some of these as was working in a school whilst pregnant in winter term. Comfortable, cheaper than the disposable FFP2 per wear and felt like a better option for the environment.

I can recommend Cambridge face masks too, they can be worn for up to 340 hours, we all have them and DS1 (Aspergers) has been wearing 1 in class since September, he prefers these over the blue surgical masks as they don't touch his face. They often have 70 % off deals on the valved masks and have valve deactivators available so you can turn them into 'valveless' masks. That's what we have done. They're expensive but we'll worth the money as they are reusable, ffp2 masks.

FFP2 masks work most others if a poorly ventilated environment don't after a certain time period they do reduce face to face transmission but sit in that space for any considerable time period e.g a school day and it doesn't take long for viral load to build up.
An American Dr described cloth masks against omicron as a face decoration recently!
FFP2 masks aren't cheap though and have to fit correctly (FF stands for face fit).

If ventilation is poor though it doesn't make much difference hence why hospital transmission can be high especially in older buildings (non covid wards) the air build up is too great. The govt is well aware of this but masks are a cheap way to be seen to be "doing something".

Masks have to be worn correctly the studies quoted all state this. Majority of adults don't wear them properly (change frequency every 3 hours for example or when moisture content is high, or reuse the same one, or touch the front etc etc etc) let alone teenagers.

BMJ had a useful assessment study of global study into covid measures. The effectiveness of masks is still very much disputed (especially given not worn properly) www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj-2021-068302

As many posters have pointed out they have made little difference in Scotland

[quote PAFMO]@DaisyMum40

You've been posting for months about how masks (in your opinion) don't work.
As your opinion has been largely debunked by facts, (nobody is saying masks alone prevent spread, but proper masks, correctly worn and other sensible mitigations most definitely do) you've moved on to saving the planet?

Behave.[/quote]
Ah yes I've seen reports linking to places like Arizona, which are now seeing record case numbers and deaths (not to mention that the figure of masked schools being 3.5 times less likely to have outbreaks has itself been debunked). So, not hard to see that masks in schools there actually haven't helped.

The impact of disposable masks on the environment isn't something that can be brushed off, nor should it be. You can patronise with your "behave" comment all you like, but the fact remains that oceans and landfill are being filled with this crap. We've just had COP26 shoved down our throats full of people swanning about in disposable masks. Handing them out like sweeties is massively irresponsible and mixed message to our children since we've been encouraging them to be more environmentally aware. Even more so given the lack of difference they make out there in the real world.

Masks outside of a clinical setting ARE completely pointless, they were never designed or manufactured to stop the spread of viruses and that's not the reason they're worn in theatre either. Even then, there's debatable evidence around the effectiveness in this environment and some theatre staff don't wear them all the time either.

@BoPeeple

And lots of kids aren’t wearing them properly/fiddle with them etc.

Again, as parents (and teachers, I’m always happy to show my students how to wear masks properly and how to check they fit) we’ve got to make sure they know how to wear them properly. Like we had to teach them to tie their shoelaces, do up a tie. If people are just handing over a mask and saying “wear it” they won’t instinctively know how to wear it to avoid gaps round the edges, not to fiddle with it, to change it regularly.

To be fair though, I don’t think some adults know how to wear them, again thanks to the government back-and-forthing on masks, then mandating them with very little education on how to use them.

@MarshaBradyo
The teaching unions lack teeth and have no impact on government policy. Most teachers are in a unions in case legal matters arise as costs are covered and legal advice provided. Last January was a complete one off in my long teaching career! I know the unions post wasn’t from you but I can’t find the original!

After all this time, I am quite surprised at some of the venom on here about wearing masks, given the absolute outrage when anyone mentioned a return to home learning. No one is a ‘mask lover’ but I guess most of us (parents, teachers and students) want schools to stay open. As I work in a school, I would also like a teeny tiny bit of the protection other workers are offered (remembering that many have been told to work from home as infections are so high). Even if the mask only give 10% more protection, that might be the difference between a school closed and a school open, albeit with three classes supervised in a hall by the caretaker. I am not asking the children to do anything I don’t have to do either as teachers will be wearing them all day too.

We all know that this government will remove the guidance before it should, so I wouldn’t worry about it being long term, despite pretty much every other country in the world accepting their use since March 2020. Let’s all push for ventilation/filtration units now and schools might have some chance of operating normally over the coming years.