Masks in classrooms secondary

[Hummmmming]

www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/01/schools-in-england-told-wear-masks-in-class-as-fears-mount-of-omicron-surge?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

Until the 26th of January

Regarding data comparing school children in Scotland vs those in England, it did appear that the ONS data last October 2021, did show that there was a sharp rise in school aged children contracting Covid in England (1 in 20) and a drop in school children in Scotland at the time:

amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/08/covid-rates-rising-in-secondary-schools-in-england-ons-data-shows

England has produced regular statistics on age groups catching Covid but Scotland less so-I can’t find much.

One word:

Opportunity cost

@JustALittleHoney

Perfect

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

I'm sure most of parents think their children wearing mask is small price to pay compared to school closing due to uncontrollable spread. I'm really buffled, it's been done in many other countries for ages, and children seems to be fine. Why is it such a huge deal in small number of countries like England and US?

Most parents do. It’s only a very small number that don’t. The extremely small numbers of parents requesting exemptions for their children, in my 1800+ school is very small. About 7 or 8 per year group and a few of those are siblings with the same parents.

All I know is that in Italy where mask compliance is really pretty good, we have had nothing like the waves in the UK, and vaccine uptake has been pretty much steady with the UK the whole time. My dc have each only been involved in one school quarantine over the whole pandemic period. On school buses anyone over five needs an ffp2 now, no eating in cinemas or stadiums where an ffp2 is needed. All classrooms must open window or door at all time and masks must be worn. Children who stay for lunch are staggered as much as possible and the vast majority avoid this as the school day finishes at 1pm, something that could also be done in UK secondaries really to avoid the eating problem if they wanted.

If it keeps schools open masks are a small price to pay. However it would also be good if they could have ensured that 12-15 year olds had access to a 2nd jab prior to the return to school. Main vaccine clinic locally are not offering vaccines for 12-15 year olds, nearest option seems to be 30 miles away. This is not good enough.

DfE are also rolling out 7000 air purifiers to schools with poor ventilation.

They've realised that measuring air quality doesn't actually do anything to improve it.

Unfortunately I've never even seen a CO2 monitor and according to polling data, the majority of teachers don't have one in their classroom.

Bodged CO2 monitor rollout leading to bodged air purifier rollout. Awesome.

Oh, and the air purifiers won't be delivered until at least next month.

How long have they had to sort ventilation in schools?

@Fairylights25

But the clubs and pubs are packed full of maskless revellers.

I am fucking furious.

Our children are yet again being muzzled, stunting their communication skills, their ability to express themselves, causing breathing issues for those with anxiety, creating an atmosphere of silence in the class room (according to both of my children) affecting speech and friendships.

I am livid.

What utter nonsense! It makes very little difference in reality. Children are used to it and are usually advised to lower their mask when making a contribution in the classroom. It 100% does not make an atmosphere of silence. There have always been exemptions for any children who genuinely struggle with them, although in my school very few have applied for exemptions. Closing schools makes a hell of a lot more difference to friendships.

My kids in NW London been in masks in classrooms since before half term. They don't like it but much prefer it to home learning.

I am so baffled by the drama over this. I recently moved back from an Asian country - every child over 4 wore a mask to school. It was fine. Schools didn't need to close past the first lockdown.
I would rather my children were in masks than home learning.
As a teacher, I would rather students were wearing masks in class as it reduces some transmission.
Muzzling?! As if it is muzzling to wear a small face covering over your mouth and nose in busy places.

@AlexaShutUp

It would be interesting to see some data on the impact of masks in Scottish schools. Anecdotally, covid ripped through dd's year group in school and she and most of her friends caught it. Same age nephew in Scotland didn't catch it when a couple of his friends tested positive, and neither did many of his other friends. Of course, the plural of anecdote isn't data etc etc, but I'm yet to be persuaded that masks have no impact whatsoever. I do think the weird halfway house of wearing them in corridors but not in classrooms is pretty pointless.

According to dd, it isn't a big deal for the kids themselves. There will be a few who will struggle with it, of course, but the vast majority are probably more than capable of adapting.

DD really doesn't want to do online school again, so even if masks only make a little difference, I think she'd gladly wear one. I agree that there is a bigger problem in primary schools where none of the kids will have been vaccinated.

Here's your answer - fuck all impact

@ChloeDecker

Regarding data comparing school children in Scotland vs those in England, it did appear that the ONS data last October 2021, did show that there was a sharp rise in school aged children contracting Covid in England (1 in 20) and a drop in school children in Scotland at the time:

amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/08/covid-rates-rising-in-secondary-schools-in-england-ons-data-shows

England has produced regular statistics on age groups catching Covid but Scotland less so-I can’t find much.

Yes cause our kids went back mid August and there was a large wave of infection much earlier than England. So no evidence linked to masks at all.

Depends on the size of the 'large wave of infection', doesn't it?

'Muzzled'

The kid whose parents think like this, will be the kids who are all suddenly exempt from having to wear them.

Personally, it's keeping windows open that I hate more. I have shit circulation, reynauds and some arthritis in my hands. It's fucking miserable. No matter how many layers I wear. But a mask might keep my nose and lips warm enough to speak.

I am particularly enjoying the angry teenagers laying into Us4Them on Twitter. “You don’t speak for us/we don’t mind wearing masks/we understand why we need them/anti-maskers grow the fuck up” being some common themes

I fear that UsForOurselves have never considered that teenagers don't enjoy being told what to think 😂

And what do you guys think of the opportunity cost of an immunosuppressed child getting covid?

Or the opportunity cost of children bringing covid home to families who remain vulnerable and may have diminished protection from boosters now?

Opportunity cost my arse.

Us4Them are thick. I saw them retweet a while ago a 'letter from a teenager' about how awful masks were.

Anyone who has any experience with teenagers could tell it was an obvious fake.

@ChloeDecker

Regarding data comparing school children in Scotland vs those in England, it did appear that the ONS data last October 2021, did show that there was a sharp rise in school aged children contracting Covid in England (1 in 20) and a drop in school children in Scotland at the time:

amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/08/covid-rates-rising-in-secondary-schools-in-england-ons-data-shows

England has produced regular statistics on age groups catching Covid but Scotland less so-I can’t find much.

As Pootle says, our schools went back at a different time so it's not comparing like for like when looking at one month specifically like that. You're right about figures being harder to find for Scotland, at press briefings there is very little/no context given to any figures, unlike the multiple slide shows for English data. I did see however that on 12 September in Scotland the highest rate of cases for any particular age category was the under 20's, and that's about four weeks after schools returned from summer holiday. So, there's still nothing to convince me that masks work in the school environment.

@noblegiraffe

DfE are also rolling out 7000 air purifiers to schools with poor ventilation.

They've realised that measuring air quality doesn't actually do anything to improve it.

Unfortunately I've never even seen a CO2 monitor and according to polling data, the majority of teachers don't have one in their classroom.

Bodged CO2 monitor rollout leading to bodged air purifier rollout. Awesome.

Nursery I work in has a co2 monitor. We've had windows open as wide as we're allowed them and it's been mostly on yellow/red. When you have 40 odd children in the room it's never likely to be green unless windows and doors all open wide which be lovely in winter. Just seems a bit daft.

That twitter lot...war against children how dramatic!

@Pootle40
I don’t disagree that that might explain a wave having gone back 2 weeks before children in England and I wish Scotland ONS was as frequent as England at publishing data more regularly as it would help either way.
However, very recent data between both countries does show some hints at Scotland cases being lower. England at least seems to be better at publishing results by age range more frequently and there was data published at the end of December by ONS www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/24december2020#age-analysis-of-the-number-of-people-in-england-who-had-covid-19 with school aged children in England the biggest percentage rising, far more than in Scotland at the same time (so doesn’t explain your going back mid August point).
England ONS data below is clear that there are far more positive cases in England overall, which has had the biggest rise, than Scotland (1 in 80 vs 1 in 140 for Scotland) population size acknowledged of course in the analysis.

So whilst we know masks on their own do not stop complete transmission and I agree with you there, they do seem to make a difference at least and vaccinations would probably make an even bigger difference, as would air filtration.
In my opinion, not enough has been done by the government for school aged children, quick enough, to prevent last minute decisions such as these. Even the useless Halfon, Chair of the Education Select Committee is still bleating on about keeping schools open but makes no mention of systems including vaccinations and air filtration to help achieve this and is instead, more interested in meetings with groups such as Us4Them

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/bulletins/coronaviruscovid19infectionsurveypilot/24december2020#number-of-people-in-scotland-who-had-covid-19

You do understand, Daisy, that no one thinks that masks are 100% effective against covid, and case rates rising despite mask use doesn't mean that they don't do anything?

@noblegiraffe

I'm actually going to agree with the people saying 'masks aren't going to do much'. I think they're right. Even the Telegraph was reporting yesterday that the government have fucked up, gambled and lost, and that we are now headed for a worrying period of chaos. The Telegraph author was free to report this (the Telegraph being famously anti-restriction so generally presenting covid data in its most positive light) as it is now too late to introduce any restrictions that will prevent it from happening.

It's too late for the government to be doing anything in schools that will significantly ameliorate the impact of omicron. Staff absences will happen. Schools will be in dire straits and start falling over.

The mask guidance is accompanied by various other panicky guidance about remote teaching, combining classes and so on. They've already put out their emergency call for anyone with a teaching qualification to return to the classroom.

They are only introducing masks in classrooms because they know other, much worse measures (kids being sent home, maybe exams cancelled) will be necessary due to their fuck-up.

They don't want to be in a situation where kids are at home with no teacher having to answer questions about why they didn't implement 'simple' measures like masks in classrooms to try to prevent it happening.

Yep, they've gambled with our health and our children's education and LOST. As noble says they know it's too late now. To them it's all a political game and this is just vote damage limitation. They haven't alienated the right wing of the party, and that matters more than health and education - we've seen this again and again.

It's alright for them their kids are in public schools that have had better mitigations throughout and they have private health insurance. If they want, they can fly elsewhere to get their kids vaccinated.

I couldn't get through to 111 over one weekend in November when my then 4 year old was very ill, my choice was to rock up at A&E or wait and see. I've lived in 4 countries and in none of the other 3 would they consider it acceptable to only have these options for healthcare for children.

I'm dreading January.

@noblegiraffe

Us4Them are thick. I saw them retweet a while ago a 'letter from a teenager' about how awful masks were.

Anyone who has any experience with teenagers could tell it was an obvious fake.

The acrostic is brilliant 🤣

I do wonder how many schools really did have masks in classrooms in December. Once they were introduced in corridors most of the students in DDs school wore them in classrooms too. She said it was at least 80% wearing in classrooms as well (including her) which would have had a definite impact.

Because kids are not stupid, and they can see that if they're needed in corridors it doesn't really make sense not to wear them in classroom (they mix classes for different subjects as secondary).