Do you think schools will return as normal in January?

[LucozadeGirl]

Just that really.

You must be kidding, TT.

[quote Sherrystrull]@TerfetyTERF

What job do you do?

I haven't seen any posts from teachers saying they are more at risk than anyone else. Merely sharing concern about risks in schools to all of the school community. [/quote]
I'm an engineer for British Gas I worked throughout the pandemic as have all my colleges, often without being able to social distance, we had to put ourselves at risk right at the start not knowing what the risks were but if we hadn't then you wouldn't have had any power, we need to get to a point where we stop mass testing healthy people and get on with life, if most other professions have gone back to normal I don't see why schools and teachers also can't.

If an education conference is important then yes it's needs to go ahead, surely all staff are triple jabbed?

But surely this is the kind of thing that would be best done virtually even in normal times? Environment, transport, paper?

I'm an engineer for British Gas I worked throughout the pandemic as have all my colleges

Oh, with a mask on, yeah? apart from that colleague who didn't bother at mine

Honestly, round and round we go.

@TerfetyTERF

My school has been 'back to normal' for over a year. No social distancing, 60+ children in my classroom each day with minimal ventilation.

However, there is clearly a difference between my classroom and being in a house with 2 or 3 other people.

we need to get to a point where we stop mass testing healthy people and get on with life

We do. However mid-winter, with a massively transmissible new variant that still has some question marks over it wouldn't seem to be the ideal point.

Do you claim to care about vulnerable children Terfety? Marsha for example does but doesn't want masks in classrooms and you it seems from your posts all over the place don't even want testing or isolation. How does square with caring about vulnerable children is what I wonder? If you're not willing to partake in basic mitigations that could help keep schools and other vital services open for them?

And how does caring about vulnerable children square itself to telling a parent that she should keep her medically vulnerable child off school rather than expect people to wear masks or do regular testing or do anything to try and make safe school for them as a poster has done recently on this thread?

It's the selectiveness of it. And yes as others have well pointed out the oh so concerned that school was closed for these vulnerable children (even though it wasn't) but zero comment on these children being massively failed by social services and the police who know these children are at risk and have neglected their duties.

It's not difficult to see at all but as someone pointed out already we don't do taat on MN or singling out posters and quoting what they've said on other threads etc plus it would be hugely unfair to single out posters when it's a broad phenomena on here.

if most other professions have gone back to normal I don't see why schools and teachers also can't
I must have missed all the teaching without social distancing I've been doing throughout all except the actual lock downs (when I did the key worker rota, though with a lot fewer children).

I feel like discussion used to be so much better on this forum and nowadays it's often just a pantomime of people being deliberately obtuse to constantly derail discussion by making people explain the obvious a million times over when patently the person doesn't need it explaining and are deliberately misrepresenting others positions.

For the record, for the millionth time, I don't want schools to close.

The limited capacity of services existed before lockdown in the UK. Austerity bites.

Yes, that article makes it clear that these problems always existed but have been highlighted and exacerbated by the the pandemic.

What we really need not to happen is for people to think, therefore, that solving the issues that led to the worsening of problems (e.g. no further lockdowns) will solve the problems themselves.

Ed Dorrell writes in the Independent about the 'ghost children' currently missing from education. www.independent.co.uk/voices/arthur-labinjo-hughes-ghost-children-schools-covid-b1975917.html

If we want schools to solve this issue, then they need funding and resourcing to do this. Schools have been increasingly tasked with solving social problems rather than merely educating, at the same time as school funding has been cut, and sometimes this is nonsensical (see feeding disadvantaged children - it took Marcus Rashford pointing out that they still need feeding in the school holidays to bring this to major public discussion).

The limited capacity of services existed before lockdown in the UK. Austerity bites

Yep - like a teenager taking an overdose, being referred to CAMHS who said it wasn't serious enough for them to offer her any help, so she took another overdose.

[quote Covidworries]@helocariad

I believe the welsh government has passed this over to each LA to decide on their local numbers and staff viability[/quote]
Thanks, @Covidworries

Swallowed no I do not want isolation for dc as it causes more lost in class time. I’m consistent on keeping class time to a maximum.

Masks in class interrupt learning and I am focusing on dc again

The idea of ‘safe’ was only to bring in measures we would accept, but it was always about case numbers in community. I think we got the balance wrong and children were hit too hard v their benefit.

This isn’t a new argument but surfaced when vaccination for teens was being discussed. When some said ethically the group has to benefit some scientists / experts pointed out the same should be said for mitigations that harm dc.

I agree with that position and think the ethical side was ignored.

Masks in class interrupt learning and I am focusing on dc again

They really don't.

@kittensinthekitchen

Can we please stop conflating vulnerable with "comes from a bad home"?

Children can be vulnerable for many, many, many reasons and many of those don't indicate that home is a dangerous place, or that school is a safe place.

If you think that schools must stay open because of those who are mistreated at home, say so, but don't paint it as being essential for ALL vulnerable children.

Well said my son is medically vulnerable as are many of the children he goes to school with, absolutely nothing vulnerable about there home lives.

In simple terms if you care about vulnerable and/or want schools and other vital services to stay open here's how you can help:

-lft your children twice a week as standard
-keep your child off school if they have symptoms and get them a pcr asap
-keep your child at home if anyone in the household has covid
-send your child to school in warm clothing
-support schools to bring back masks in classrooms at least whilst we get through this omicron tsunami.

If you're not willing to do these things you will be a contributing factor if/when schools have to close. Basic reality.

Longer term:

If you care about vulnerable children start making noise about how austerity has devastated society's ability to safeguard and take care of them. Demand funding for all children's services which have been unfit for purpose for years as people like us have been telling you. Stop buying into teacher bashing and school blaming that is about detracting from the facts of what 10 years of underfunding has done to schools ability to function in a normal year let alone the last two paying for covid provisions and supply.

You could also do small practical things like giving any outgrown uniform to your school to be passed on to kids who need it, find out if your school has a breakfast club for PP kids and see what you could usefully provide for it - we give all of ours toast and hot chocolate etc every morning and I bet we'd be glad of all sorts of donations whether consumables or basic equipment.

God knows how much we spend in a year giving basics like pens and pencils to kids who get sent in without even the most basic equipment every single day - maybe you could set up a parent body who fundraises to put together basic pencil cases with ruler, pen, pencil, rubber, protractors etc to give out to kids who don't have any kit. You could fundraise for a fund for paying for school trips or revision materials for kids whose parents can't or won't pay for them.

I know there are people who do genuinely care and want to help and thank you very much to those who do. Some of our parents have been fantastic through this whole crisis.

@Hercisback

Masks in class interrupt learning and I am focusing on dc again

They really don't.

I don’t see the benefit outweighs the cost for masks in class.

Omicron is so transmissible it will spread quickly. How much delay would you get from using them?

If you care you're willing to make compromises and do things that will keep schools open. You're not.

How does I care about keeping schools open for vulnerable kids square with I'm not prepared to support masks or testing or isolation. They are incompatible positions.

If you want to see benefits go look at the graphs of when masks were being used and when they weren't.

lft your children twice a week as standard
-keep your child off school if they have symptoms and get them a pcr asap
-keep your child at home if anyone in the household has covid
-send your child to school in warm clothing
-support schools to bring back masks in classrooms at least whilst we get through this omicron tsunami.

• We are asked to test already
• We picked up delta through LFT even without many symptoms
• We follow guidance and send in - luckily as my dc hit delta far enough apart for that extra ten days to have been completely pointless
• warm clothes well they wear what they feel comfortable in and choose how many layers of the uniform
• no in class, unless asked, I would do it if requested

@swallowedAfly

If you care you're willing to make compromises and do things that will keep schools open. You're not.

How does I care about keeping schools open for vulnerable kids square with I'm not prepared to support masks or testing or isolation. They are incompatible positions.

If you want to see benefits go look at the graphs of when masks were being used and when they weren't.

Why are you do pro isolation?

Don’t you see the issue with more lost in class time after so much?

Why is anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together keen on isolating the sick and their very close contacts during pandemics since the middle ages?

@Hercisback

Masks in class interrupt learning and I am focusing on dc again

They really don't.

I agree. Masks in classrooms don't interrupt learning (and I teach a largely practical subject).

@swallowedAfly

Why is anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together keen on isolating the sick and their very close contacts during pandemics since the middle ages?

Ok insult aside - I thought you wanted better debate

No it’s not proportionate to keep isolating children due to close contacts, that’s why it stopped.

Some were out cumulatively for weeks, and isolating not just lockdown with exercise - which we got for adults. It wasn’t right and I’m glad most can see that, including advisers. To want to continue is an outlier take against the grain.

Having to close schools due to rampant covid caused by a lack of mitigation measures in them definitely affected learning.

Kids being off sick in large numbers due to catching covid off each other at school also affects learning.