Guardian article on paediatric admissions New York

[OhDear2200]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/27/us-child-covid-omicron-infections-school-closures

Curious - as we are not vaccinating children (most anyway) should we expect an increase in hospital admissions for children?

Or is there something I’m missing?

We knew from SA that paediatric admissions are higher with this variant. Even the very first report of this variant being mild from a SA medic also included a report of a young child with a racing heartbeat.

The advice from SA to other countries was to prepare more paediatric beds. Most of the kids admitted will be fine. A small number will not.

This thread reminds me of the first covid wave. Oh no we couldn't possibly have people dying of covid in the UK like China and Italy because of x, y and z. Except we did.

This is coming. Most kids will still have mild cold symptoms or no symptoms. Some will have a racing heartbeat and some will have respiratory distress. And there will be more hospital admissions than last time, although still relatively low.

Tabbacus

Perhaps I wasn't clear. The commissioned research shows risk and recommends priority vaccination. Nothing has been done, almost a month on. Are you suggesting this shouldn't happen because children with asthma are used to being hospitalised? I'm confused about what point you're even making.

The study demonstrated a marked increased in risk of hospitalisation for children with asthma (not every child but the conditions would describe most children with asthma) when they have Covid.

I'm not sure why you are blithely saying it's nothing new to be hospitalised for asthma as if that makes it ok. I can assure you that my child is well versed in it but doesn't enjoy it and wouldn't fare well if there was a queue. Which there would be if lots of asthmatic children with Covid were more likely to need treatment at that time because they have Covid.

Making sense now?

If they didn't prioritise older people (also known to be at risk) or withheld the flu vaccine from children I'd have a problem with that too.

Instead they're vaccinating perfectly healthy 20 year olds who do not have asthma because there's an economic incentive. That's unconscionable.

Most children with asthma are never hospitalised by the way. Asthma is incredibly common.

@tabbacus

Yes they may be hospitalised several times a year but in most cases they recieve the care they need and cam be discharged. What happens if too many children beed care at the same time ? What happe s if that care cant be provided? Children that could recieve treatment and come home will deteriate waiting for the treatment they need

Beware apologies for my clumsy words and also sorry that your DC is suffering long Covid.

You are right, I do mean that the chances are low, but not non existant.

I do hope your son is OK and his health improves over time.

I suspect all children will get the care they need even if it means turning an adult ward into a paediatric ward. Adults may not though.
What will be lacking for children are enough ambulances. So parents will be encouraged to transport them themselves.

@RoyalFamilyFan

I suspect all children will get the care they need even if it means turning an adult ward into a paediatric ward. Adults may not though. What will be lacking for children are enough ambulances. So parents will be encouraged to transport them themselves.

It is absolutely the public are talking openly about stuff like this and at the same time so many are still saying no restrictions will be needed.

@rrhuth truthfully I think a lot of people are very stupid.

There will have been a lot of mixing on Christmas Day. I hope we don't see a surge in a weeks time, but I suspect we will.

To be fair, a lot of people believe the government advice. And the BBC.

A lot of people like to revel in fear I think, goodness me.

Revel in fear!
Better to insult people than engage in discussion about facts i guess.

There surveillance is nowhere near as good it seems, so they really don't know.

Because they have to pay for tests, the real figure will go unnoticed as it gains momentum.

New York State are saying the same.

@Wattfad

A lot of people like to revel in fear I think, goodness me.

What does this even mean, though?

Why do people use these phrases about covid but not if there is any discussion about e.g. measles or mumps?

Of course people have some fear, as a person who loves my family, I like my family to stay well. It is pretty fucked up to blindly insist everything is tickety-boo despite evidence, surely?

Thank you @Ohsofedupwiththis I do worry sometimes that the narrative is so heavily “kids don’t get ill from covid!” that some people will believe that and not be bothered about (or actively prevent) mitigations for their/other children.

The randomness of covid worries me. Like I said, ds was completely normal and healthy, why did it affect him? He’s not the only healthy child left with long term problems. We still have no idea which (small number of) kids it’s going to affect and why. We don’t know enough about covid to have a false sense of security about it.

Think the neurological info coming out is concerning and why on earth parents are fine to risk their kids this way I just don't understand..

@BewareTheLibrarians

Thank you *@Ohsofedupwiththis* I do worry sometimes that the narrative is so heavily “kids don’t get ill from covid!” that some people will believe that and not be bothered about (or actively prevent) mitigations for their/other children.

The randomness of covid worries me. Like I said, ds was completely normal and healthy, why did it affect him? He’s not the only healthy child left with long term problems. We still have no idea which (small number of) kids it’s going to affect and why. We don’t know enough about covid to have a false sense of security about it.

Well said, and I'm so sorry about your DS, it's so unfair.

A PP said that we need to look at and respond to real data. At the end of the first half term after the summer 12 children died from covid in a week. That's in the government statistics. Not reported on widely ( a few moral scientists have tried to speak out). It seems to me in general as a nation we're choosing to gamble with kids health and wait for incontrovertible evidence, by which point it'll be too late, rather than act in a precautionary way. It's despicable.

How many children could have avoided having long covid and being horrendously ill for months and years with heart problems, diabetes etc (and the additional costs and NHS services used) if we had air filtration, proper ventilation and lower class sizes in schools. Plus vaccination earlier than we did for 12 year olds + and they're making the same mistake now with 5+.

None of these things are impossible. The ventilation and air filtration is easy and relatively cheap and yet, the government would rather have to open costly extra wards for paediatric admissions than fund schools to be safer.

Why are people minimising this? Dismissing it? ACCEPTING it? It's a choice. We're choosing this as a nation for our children. Believe me, those children affected will look at what other countries have done for their kids and rightly judge us adults in the future. For not standing up to this government and saying no.

Why can't we get our 5-11 year olds vaccinated? Millions vaccinated in the US and elsewhere, why are we being denied this choice?

@BluebellsGreenbells

There surveillance is nowhere near as good it seems, so they really don't know.

Because they have to pay for tests, the real figure will go unnoticed as it gains momentum.

No we don't, @BluebellsGreenbells, Covid testing is free in the US.

But, at-home tests aren't as readily available. I have to take my DD to a local hospital for a test later today as someone on her sports team has tested positive (and they practiced together a couple of days ago). No at-home tests available in local pharmacies, they get scooped up right away.

I think there is abit of scaremongering in the Guardian article.
I live in one of the states that they list as moving to online school after the holiday. Our schools are going virtual for just two extra days after the holiday, to allow everyone to get tested before going back into the classroom. So pupils are going back to classrooms on the 5th of January, instead of the 3rd.

My friends live in a US state which has managed covid well. They can go online and see the ventilation status of their kids classroom. It's not like this sort of thing is impossible.

A recent study showed that unventilated / poorly ventilated classrooms have 6x the rates of covid as properly / adequately ventilated. So that's 6x the number of kids seriously ill. For the sake of decent ventilation. Other countries have been doing this for 6 months and more.

If you read the threads on here with lots of teachers they say the CO2 monitors kept going red so got turned off. So accepting that that environment is a perfect environment for covid and exposing all children and teachers within it to that risk - a risk which could be reduced quite drastically with ventilation measures or air filtration.

A recent study showed that unventilated / poorly ventilated classrooms have 6x the rates of covid as properly / adequately ventilated. So that's 6x the number of kids seriously ill. For the sake of decent ventilation. Other countries have been doing this for 6 months and more.

No, it just means it takes 6 times as long for all the children to get infected... Ventilation may slow Covid, and it's a good thing, but it won't stop it!

It will stop it if it gives those kids time to get vaccinated, which the majority of parents would do.

@rrhuth

Think the neurological info coming out is concerning and why on earth parents are fine to risk their kids this way I just don't understand..

Do you really think it's realistic for children to get through their childhoods without catching Covid, especially with Omicron? I think Cambridge Uni researchers have estimated about 70% of U.K. children have already had it!

That's a terribly written article, and uses increases in percentages and quadrupled without mentioning figures.

@theemperorhasnoclothes

It will stop it if it gives those kids time to get vaccinated, which the majority of parents would do.

Vaccinations will slow infections, and will protect against severe disease, but vaccinations aren't ultimately going to stop you from being infected.