Guardian article on paediatric admissions New York

[OhDear2200]

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/27/us-child-covid-omicron-infections-school-closures

Curious - as we are not vaccinating children (most anyway) should we expect an increase in hospital admissions for children?

Or is there something I’m missing?

Children are often admitted for many different respiratory illnesses, often for less than 24 hours. I'd be more interested in the number of children having a lengthy stay in PICU to be honest.

@Barbie222

Milkyaquas post provided the relevant data, *@Ohsofedupwiththis* .

No one is saying that any panicking should be done, and it's disappointing to see this wheeled out again as a way to minimise the data we do have.

We're human and we'd all like a neat way to explain this away, but we have to work with the data that we have and face what it's telling us, rather than stay in denial about the effect of covid on kids.

So who provided the data? New York Health Authority or Washington Post.

I am in no ways trying to minimise it. I want to know of my children are more at risk from Omicrom compared to previous variants.

So we need clear and concise data.

When case numbers are high, more children will be admitted with Covid than for Covid. I want to know how many are for Covid and if this is an increase compared to previously when adjusted for case numbers etc.

Should clarify my above post. More children will be admitted with Covid than at other times when case numbers are lower. I do not mean that there will be more incidental admissions that actual Covid admissions.

But what does a 20% increase mean? They need to report actual figures, a 20% increase on a 0.4% risk is a lot less than a 20% increase on a 30% risk. 🤷‍♀️

I see on the news today that NY are making vaccines for 5yo and upwards mandatory.

20% more paed admissions than with delta,as I just posted.

Alternatively, see this (from a SAGE member), if you're wondering if it's "just" caused by the current higher general case rates - our government have chosen not to protect the population,which includes children:

twitter.com/susanmichie/status/1475436150420656131?s=21

@Ohsofedupwiththis

Should clarify my above post. More children will be admitted with Covid than at other times when case numbers are lower. I do not mean that there will be more incidental admissions that actual Covid admissions.

I hope you're not trying to apply logic and common sense.

@OhDear2200

Surely The Guardian is (vaguely) replicable and surely questioning the same issues as ‘with’ and ‘for’?

Funniest thing I've read this morning

(Israel and France reporting similar rises.)

Here's a summary from a medical study of paediatric admissions in the SA province most affected when omicron appeared:

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.21.21268108v1

"Findings During the six-week period 6,287 paediatric (≤19 years) COVID-19 cases were recorded in Tshwane District, of these 462 (7.2%) were hospitalized in 42 hospitals (18% of overall admissions). The number of paediatric cases was higher than in the prior 3 waves, uncharacteristically preceding adult hospitalisations"

I think there are some outstanding questions for all admissions with omicron, although I may be out of date.

We know that covid can exist along with other seasonal viruses like RSV, flu etc. and I would be interested to know how many admissions have dual diagnoses, not just with as we know one can aggravate the other. Flu is captured as an underlying condition for the purposes of deaths from covid.

I’d also be interested to know the average length of each admission and treatment escalation. If it’s shorter and simpler than previous waves then it’s a different scenario to consider too.

So who provided the data? New York Health Authority or Washington Post.

The New York State Department of Health have provided this warning. Various media outlets are reporting on it.

The New York State Department of Health have provided this warning. Various media outlets are reporting on it

Yes I know! I have never questioned that. What I want to see is the data for New York that they surely provided to back up this warning.

Good questions @Cornettoninja . Will answers come in Fridays ONS report, that covers flu as well doesn't it?

Here's the Advisory from NY

https://health.ny.gov/press/releases/2021/docs/2021-12-24healthh_advisory.pdf

and the underlying data:

health.data.ny.gov/Health/New-York-State-Statewide-COVID-19-Hospitalizations/jw46-jpb7

Sorry I can't look at it properly on my phone and there doesn't seem to be an easy summary,but it is the data.

@JanglyBeads

Good questions *@Cornettoninja* . Will answers come in Fridays ONS report, that covers flu as well doesn't it?

I think so, I can’t recall what dates it will cover - I’m sure the data thread will pick it up. They’re an excellent group of people

I think a lot of the data is still quite noisy as omicron is getting established, this whole pandemic has been a frustratingly slow disaster!

The figures for children in London are mirroring NY.

A friend of mine is a paediatric nurse in the UK and said they are full but not with covid cases; mainly mental health admissions and then the usual seasonal respiratory illnesses.

@CovidCorvid New York introduced a vaccine mandate for 5-11’s several weeks ago. They cannot access indoor dining, museums, sports events etc. without one vaccination. 12+ require two vaccinations. Everyone can still go into shops and use public transport without being vaccinated.

@rrhuth - can you expand on your post please? and provide us with the data on which you are making your assertion.

@Ohsofedupwiththis

New York has a incredible amount of cases. Probably similar to London if not more. There surveillance is nowhere near as good it seems, so they really don't know.

It seems that there is a lot more emphasis on how serious a disease Covid is for children in the US and that they need to all get their children vaccinated. The data doesn't really back it up, even if vaccination is a good thing.

But I guess if you can't vaccinate the adults, you have to vaccinate the kids? (NYC I think does have a very high rate of vaccinated adults).

But if a significant percentage of children have Covid then a small number will be hospitalised both with and for Covid.

The messaging really is very different but I guess over there, a large amount are anti vaxx, Covid deniers, which means that others are the complete opposite and think their healthy kid is going to die or get long Covid. Neither is based in reality.

Indeed, LFTs cost around $30 each so far less testing and stopping transmission chains than we have here. On the positive side, we'll able to see how a major metropolis like NYC copes when Omicron just rips through. I doubt it will be anything like March 2020 - i sincerely hope not!

From what I have heard about US hospitals, they have a tendency to overtreat compared to NHS.

@rrhuth

The figures for children in London are mirroring NY.

Are they?

The Lancet published a Scottish study just under a month ago with findings of a marked risk of hospitalisation for children with asthma. In Britain

And recommended prioritising these under 12s for vaccination. Nothing has been done because there is no economic incentive.

Our country doesn't care about children.

@Takemine

The Lancet published a Scottish study just under a month ago with findings of a marked risk of hospitalisation for children with asthma. In Britain

And recommended prioritising these under 12s for vaccination. Nothing has been done because there is no economic incentive.

Our country doesn't care about children.

Children with asthma (or viral induced wheeze) are often hospitalised for respiratory illnesses, this is nothing new. I'm not saying those children are less important or oh it's okay it's just them not others, but it's not unexpected and it's something parents of children with asthma and hospitals will be sadly well versed in. There's also a world of difference between a child with asthma needing a nebuliser or oxygen (as happens up to several times a year for many) and them being extremely poorly with covid. Do you think because no one is usually arsed about seasonal colds or RSV or the like they don't care about children either?

@Prescottdanni123

From what I have heard about US hospitals, they have a tendency to overtreat compared to NHS.

From what I understand both countries have lower thresholds for treatment/hospitalisations of children so that might balance out in that respect. It’s hard to tell right now and I feel brings us back to the data on length of admission and escalation in treatments.

think their healthy kid is going to die or get long Covid. Neither is based in reality.

Not to “well, actually..” your post, but DS was completely healthy, fit, sporty, slim, no underlying conditions and managed to get covid pretty badly, PIMS and now “long covid” (heart problems and other pain and inflammation) lasting 21 months now.

You possibly meant to say that the risk of that was low, rather than “not reality” as for some of us it is a very stressful and painful reality.