Strict Covid Passports - surely this would help fix the problem?

[MyWordWhatAPalava]

Trying again to have a sensible discussion about this after a complete plonker troll derailed my thread yesterday and mnet had to take it down (fair play to mumsnet the troll was vile and all over the thread).

So my question is, being that this is what other countries are doing, why aren't we?

I agree that people should be able to choose whether to be vaccinated or not. I don't agree with forcing people to have something injected into their body that they don't want. HOWEVER, given the severe impact that decision is having on the economy, mental health and the NHS* (and by default hundreds of thousands of people who are having operations/treatment delayed) why shouldn't there be the necessity to have a vaccine passport to enter retail, leisure facilities etc?

That way, people who choose not to be vaccinated, can continue to remain unvaccinated whilst the vast majority of us can start getting back to normal as the omicron varient seems to be very mild in those who are vaccinated. Obviously there would be medical exemption for those who are medically unable to be vaccinated.

What are people's thoughts on this?

*a doctor friend said in her hospital the figures are still that 90% of Covid cases in ICU are unvaccinated. I'm not sure of the country-wide current figures but I think it's still the majority by a long stretch.

You want people without up to date vaccine passports to not be allowed to go shopping?

This is laughably absurd.

People have had the use and safety of the vaccine explained but if they won't listen or aren't capable of understanding, what else can be done?

We can get on and accept that covid will continue to spread, as it will if we are all 100% vaccinated anyway, and try and make our NHS fit for purpose so that it can cope with people getting ill.

It's not 90 percent. Your doctor friend pulled that out of their backside

Not all people are equally at risk of severe illness. If you have no risk factors (underlying conditions such as diabetes or hypertension, obesity, autoimmune conditions etc) why should you have to have a medical treatment you don't want in order to participate in public life?

It's not just vaccination that prevents serious illness. Why do people like you continue to pretend this is the case?

My theory is deep down it pisses people off to have taken a vaccine that is not zero risk and they want everyone else to take the risk they did, regardless of whether or not it is actually effective.

Because two vaccine doses gives very little protection re getting the new variant abs because everyone hasn’t had the chance to have a booster since we rightly prioritised by age. Si either we say you need two jabs to enter (which are useless and don’t stop the spread) or we say three abs ban people simply if the virtue of being too young for the booster programe which is unethical in my mind. I think we can revisit the idea in the new year when we have more data on how much the booster provides long term protection against catching abs most importantly spreading covid. But for me that data is needed plus a longer period of availability of the booster shot before we could think about going down that route. That is if the sun is to reduce transmission if cvid I think often it seems to be just do whatever else is doing which isn’t the right strategy

@Jenala I have a relative who actually admitted that to me. She didn't really want the vaccine but took it because she thought she might need it to go on holiday abroad. Then she was in favour of compulsory vaccination because she thought it wasn't fair that she had it but others could decide not to. 'I did it, so should everyone else'. I managed to change her mind about that when discussing it, but it was quite an odd thought process to comprehend!

My theory is deep down it pisses people off to have taken a vaccine that is not zero risk and they want everyone else to take the risk they did, regardless of whether or not it is actually effective

This is my theory too.

@Jenala

“My theory is deep down it pisses people off to have taken a vaccine that is not zero risk and they want everyone else to take the risk they did, regardless of whether or not it is actually effective.”

You’ve hit the nail on the head there.

OP

There's the problem with your thread.

You're trying to use logic and reason on people who do not respond to logic and reason.

You can not use logic and intelligence to change someone's opinion if that person did not use logic and intelligence to form their opinion in the first place.

OP what does Dr Jackanory think we should do?

My theory is deep down it pisses people off to have taken a vaccine that is not zero risk and they want everyone else to take the risk they did, regardless of whether or not it is actually effective.

I disagree. Don't take it if you don't want to. No one is forcing you. Just stop complaining and stop playing a victim when the choice you made inconvenience you. People take vaccine for both personal protection and for community protection. I just want this pandemic to be over. That is all.

Not all people are equally at risk of severe illness. If you have no risk factors (underlying conditions such as diabetes or hypertension, obesity, autoimmune conditions etc) why should you have to have a medical treatment you don't want in order to participate in public life

Exactly this. You really want my perfectly healthy 16 year old to keep pumping himself with a vaccine indefinitely that does carry risk for him to participate in life?

I don't know how people get to the conclusion that this is a good thing or even achieves anything. My DS was never going to end up in hospital, he was also happy to isolate when he did get it because he is not a dick (snotty nose and blood shot eyes btw) and I don't know whether it is because of the "I have done it so you should too" thing, but all I know is it is utterly vile. Revolting.

People take vaccine for both personal protection and for community protection.

This is the thing that annoys me. As above my DS doesn't need it for personal protection and nothing about him getting this vaccine would offer the community any protection. It's a bullshit line trotted out far too easily without any scrutiny.

Then don't let him take it, @ hamstersarse. Simple.

@BillyBarryBoo

There's another thread at the moment where hospital staff are reporting how things are in their hospital. None of them have said they're overwhelmed with Covid patients. One mentioned the first patient for a few (days/weeks - I can't remember) in ICU who is not vaccinated.

The hospitals are not at breaking point because of people who have chosen not to have the vaccine. They are at breaking point because of staffing issues, which is a long term, deliberate choice by a series of governments.

I don't know how to link the thread but the title is pretty obvious

The point is that those hospital workers who get a mild dose of Omicron still have to stay at home. Then who's going to deliver the life-saving chemo?

@mclaw

Are you prepared to keep your vaccine passports up to date with every booster, if required?

honestly? probably not. I don't see the point

In other countries with strict passes, they are updated automatically and are deleted if, for example, you don't take up your second dose or booster. The QR codes are checked by scanners (I was surprised to see people just waving their phones at an event on the telly in the UK) No self-administered tests are allowed. They can only be done by HCPs and are automatically updated onto the app. I had my first LFT and PCR the other week and 8 minutes after the LFT my pass was updated with the results. 48 hours later it was deleted as no longer valid.

Completely agree with @Jenala. What about people who are severely obese, are smokers, have hypertension etc who are more at risk of being hospitalized? These are arguably due to life style choices just as it is somebody's choice not to have a vaccine. We are coercing people into having vaccines by vaccine passports, restricting their lives and ostracising them. Wrong on so many levels

How is it coercion or mandatory vaccination? Nobody has to go to the pub or the cinema.

Vaccine passports are a waste of time now as the new varient is spreading among the fully vaccinated and boosted so what's the point . As for hospitals it's staff shortages not patients that is overwhelming the nhs .

It’s coercive because it’s taking away liberties that people already have if they don’t comply, obviously.

It’s not a situation where if people do this thing then they can have the privilege of doing something new. It’s saying that if they don’t do this thing, then they have to stop doing things that they have been able to do their whole lives. Of course it’s coercion.

I could understand the reasoning of vaccine passports if the vaccine was one that eliminated a very dangerous disease but in this case, it’s nonsensical. So many flaws.

If there are any exceptions granted, then it really isn't a strict passport is it? Allowing small children who are not vaccine eligible out and about in public around other people is hardly strict.

@samyeagar

If there are any exceptions granted, then it really isn't a strict passport is it? Allowing small children who are not vaccine eligible out and about in public around other people is hardly strict.

Vaccine passes in other countries are given for : Recovered from Covid Negative tested Vaccinated.