What is it people want with the NHS?

[stripyleopardsleep]

Had a lunch gathering this weekend and as often is the case, covid comes up and the vitriol towards the NHS was quite a shock to me.

• NHS is awful, not fit for purpose
• NHS staff are lazy, time wasters
• NHS staff waste appointments and don't know what they're doing
• NHS staff waste money, they shouldn't get any more
• no one wants any more money going into the NHS

The discussion went on....

I'm a hospital worker who has worked through the pandemic and I was quite bruised to hear what they thought about my work life and colleagues who I believe work incredibly hard in a huge unwieldy organisation.

But no one could say what they wanted? What would make it better? What does everyone want from the NHS and how can it be achieved?

I used to have it exactly like you have through my old company. It seemed to work very well. I made a co payment once a year and overall it was very good value for money. It also covered existing illnesses because the company I worked for was very large.

I had a health scare last year and whilst the NHS did resolve it it was only because I focused on getting the earliest appointment I could. I called them, made friends with the receptionist and said if they had a very late cancellation could they think of me and I would drop everything to get there (my job allows me to do this - previous role definitely didnt!).

She called me one day and I was dealt with very well and on my way in no time.

That was a red flag though to me and I thought I really need to invest in private medical insurance myself for peace of mind.

@TheReluctantPhoenix

It is actually quite sad that the same consultant s treat their private patients as educated consumers with choices and their NHS patients as charity cases (they should be grateful for getting the treatment).

‘Free at the point of use’ is frequently assumed by NHS workers to be free (they forget the tax bit) and forget that their patients are paying their wages (albeit indirectly).

I agree. There's a real "attitude" problem with some NHS staff, at all levels, where they have the attitude that you're getting their expertise for free, so you should be grateful and put up & shut up!

There's also the attitude that because billions are spent on the NHS, there's no point in individual staff members doing their bit to save money, hence why there's so much "small scale" waste. They don't seem to realise that thousands of NHS staff, each making a small amount of unnecessary waste (of money or resources) adds up to a huge figure!

The NHS should be depoliticised. I think something along the lines of the systems in Europe, where the State acts as the insurer - not the provider of health care. I wouldn't object to an element of co-pay either. We need many more scanning and testing facilities, I need brain scans every 6 months and waiting 4 weeks or more for the results is difficult

@AmIAGrinchx I'm so so sorry. Prayers.

crazy so would you charge everyone for missed appointments? Regardless of age? If you charged 38 year old Dave, people wouldn't bat an eyelid. If you charged 78 year old Doris there'd be an absolute outcry, despite the older generation often being very more able to pay and the biggest users of the health service.
Charging everyone wouldn't happen, people would be exempt because of age, so regardless of ability to pay, as with bus travel, prescriptions etc they'd get missed appointments for free too. As would DC and those on benefits. Leaving the poor sods in the middle hit hardest again.

What would happen for letters not sent, appointments not made, results not given, discharges sprung on people with nothing in place?

yes, that's a good point.
if there are to be penalties, it has to work both ways, like on the railways.
how much could a patient be paid for nhs not informing of appt., being sent to wrong hosp, delayed treatment etc.

I've worked in the NHS for over ten years; I am awestruck by the decline. The NHS really is on its last legs. A huge thanks to all of the senior non-clinical staff squeezing every single penny out of the system.

I am going private.

[quote TheReluctantPhoenix]@wyleee,

I think it is interest that people are so against ‘privatisation’.

The reality is that we have had a two tier system for years.

If you have insurance (or money) and need a hip replacement, you can probably get it within a few weeks, under the surgeon of your choice, and recover in a comfortable private room with a menu of delicious food served at a time of your choice.

On the ‘wonderful’ NHS, you could wait in pain for 1 year plus and recover in a ward, with crap ‘dinner’ ‘served’ (sometimes thrown) at you at 5:30pm, to suit the convenience of the hospital, not the patient.

Even cancer can be treated better privately (in general), with v quick diagnostic tests and immediate chemo, even in the time of Covid

The US, even, does not allow acute patients to die in the street. There is free acute medicine even there.

The main difference is that we do keep emergency medicine and acute care the same for all.

The idea that our system is so much better than others is a lie, really, an opiate served to the masses so they don’t get uppity.[/quote]
The US pays a great deal more for its health service; there are incentives to over-order tests and treatments and mental health services for poor, chronic patients are very limited.

@herecomesthsun @TheReluctantPhoenix

Yes I saw a very interesting video of an American and U.K. junior doctor discussing the cost of sonography. The U.K. medic was saying that it's the first option they go to for investigation as it's cost effective ;a few hundred) whereas the the American doctor idea of the cost as wildly different - essentially because it's a private and he was adding a huge profit margin onto it. It was pretty eye opening. We don't want to go down that road with our healthcare system. It's a dangerous slippery slope.

With regard to our private health care it's generally the same doctors and surgeons working in both the NHS and private clinics so the Skills you gain access to are no different it just puts you in a position where you feel more in control and may get better customer service.

I want an NHS that uses resources wisely and treats patients with respect, dignity and empathy. Recent experiences have not evidenced this.

In the summer I had a bad fall suspecting I had broken my wrist and a vertebrae. The ambulance service refused to triage me unless I could prioritise which injury was worse. I don't have XRay eyes. They were like little Britain and despite being on the pavement, unable to get up I was told to take paracetamol or ibuprofen but get advice from a pharmacist. By the time a clinician called he actually said, OK "I'll arrange for your free ambulance to be sent."

I was taken to our local General hospital which does not do emergency surgery or have 24/7 orthopaedic cover. I arrived at 5.30pm and left at 5.30am.

I didn't have any interrraction with an hip for 6 hours but thankfully the ambulance crew had topped me up with morphine. During the time at the hospital I observed four different nurses shout really aggressively at patients without provocation. It was stomach churning.

When I was seen by a very young A&E Dr she completely dismissed my back injury, initially refusing and XRay and making me justify it then still dismissed it until I said I wanted it noted in mybrecords I had requested it and she had refused. The pain was exactly the same as when I broke my L1 5 years previously and I am under rheumatology for established osteoporosis. I was even told I had to trust her as she had been to medical school.

Notwithstanding that she then said "I assume you are retired as you are over 60". I am not and have a professional full-time job. She launched then in a very patronising way about whether I lived independently and had any help from carers. I am not decrepit in any way and most people would think I am early to mid fifties. It was mindblowing and her tone shoukd have changed as soon as I said I worked full time.

When my XRays came back she was crystal clear there was only an old fracture and I needed to have my wrist reduced in resus. Initially I was told I would only have G&A which contravenes the Nice Guidance but I insisted on conscious sedation. Afterwards I was not offered so much as a glass of water. It was notable that in Resus and cubicles there were more nurses than patients all nattering about their breaks.

On the Monday I was phoned by the sister, bigger hospital to say that I needed pins and plates in my wrist. To be fair that was ably done the following Wednesday although there was an aborted attempt that took all of Tuesday but they ran out of operating time. The gentleman who called told me he was Mr x, a surgeon and assumed he could use my first name indicating I am not, as a patie t, regarded as an equal stakeholder in my care.

Experiences in outpatients to were cattle truck by nature with one rude registrar telling me to keep my head out of the internet because it was full of crack heads.
At the same time men were called to appointments as Mr, women as first name/last name. The sex discrimation act was passed in 1974 so they have had nearly 45.5 years to understand it but still need to employ equality and diversity experts.

As my wrist recovered my back was excruciating and I went to my GP in late October. My concerns were dismissed and I was told muscular damage and sprains often took longer than breaks. She refused to refer me to a back specialist or for physio because it would be better by the time an appointment came through. I was told everything was fine and she gave me the radiology report dated 27th August noting old damage to the L1 and T12. I noticed this when I got home. There had never before been any damage to the T12.

When I pointed this out and called I was reluctantly referred to a back specialist. I elected to take the private route. Within a fortnight and post MRI the T12 fracture, Compressed by more than 40% and with a fragment detached was confirmed as new.

Nobody listened, resources were wasted, people were rude and overall it was negligent and shambolic. Here a broken hip is regularly taken to the local hospital. That person after hours on a trolley is then transferred to the sister hospital. How can the people in charge not see that as a waste of resources. How is it sensible to use two ambulances when they are in short supply and mess people about so.

My complaint rolls on after two pathetic responses that are full of NHS doublespeak and which do nothing to indicate any issue is being properly addressed.

I don't want anyone to go through what I did ever again and God help anyone taken to that hospital whose life may be in actual danger.