Were people who are very vunerable (weakened immune systems etc) isolating before covid?

[JellyOnAPlatewithicecream]

As there are lots of other virus' / bugs you can catch? I get it more when it was very new but we know a lot more about it now, and people seem to be disproportionately worried about COVID over any of the other nasty things out there you could catch in a shop or on the bus... when COVID disappears will they still be avoiding these places?

Just a bit confused as to why we might need another lockdown when the Omnicrom symptoms are basically a cold for most people who catch it (and are fully vaccinated), apparently most people (around 9 out of 10 I think) in hospital at the mo with covid are unvaccinated, are we going to have to be in lockdowns for evermore just because people are refusing to get jabbed?

@sowhatifiam it doesn't sound nice. But the impact these restrictions are having on society are worse. I was a first time mum in the first lockdown with a baby that needed to stay in hospital for the first few weeks (while I went home). Me and his dad weren't allowed in together to see him so I was going up there on my own every day with no support while also recovering from birth. I basically went through labour on my own. There are thousands of people who have had a much tougher time due to these restrictions who I'm sure would be happy to trade in three weeks feeling poorly at home. Most people who are fully vaccinated (booster too) will not even get it as bad as that, and it seems the main risk to services melting down is people having to isolate even though they feel well enough to go to work. Most people in hospital with it are unvaccinated. We've put people through enough with these lockdowns, it's time to get tougher with getting people to have the jab and then start getting on with our lives.

OP, you don’t seem to understand that it’s not just like a cold for most people who are clinically vulnerable - this is a particular population who remain particularly at risk even if vaccinated. I’m a GP and recently had one of my vulnerable patients in her early 40s narrowly survive following ventilation in ITU despite being double vaxxed.

People are having a hard time accepting that our "old" way of life isn't really there any more and probably won't be for a long time.

I am CEV and I either get something and it lasts for 48 hours at severe level or weeks at a not so severe level. I've always done my best but never restricted where I go or what I do. The way I see it I could get hit by a bus or be in a fatal car accident or any multitude of scenarios and so I try to live each day as best I can. I am 49 and have possibly 20 years left so fuck it, I'm not shielding or isolating any more. Two precious years gone already

I’m CEV due to immune suppressant meds. I’m careful all the time- avoid crowds and ill people as much as possible. Still have to go to work so it’s mostly my social life that suffers but I know how much “minor” illnesses affect me and the secondary infections I pick up so I don’t have much choice. It’s shit.

@PieMistee

If I hear "it's just basically a cold" line one more time I might add someone else to the a&e queue. Either you are thick or goady at this point.

Totally agree with this.

If it was just a fucking cold why would all this be happening?

Currently fewer than one person dies each day from a cold, despite the fact that there are no measures at all in place to stop people who have colds from mixing. So I would say that covid is really not like a cold.

Ah, so you choose to tell me my getting covid really wasn’t that bad but carefully ignore the concerns that those of us who have CV/CEV family members have about essential and emergency access to medical services. You have had a difficult time yourself yet can’t extend an ounce of empathy to see that others may also be having a tough time albeit for different reasons to yourself. Basically, then, you’re happy for other people to be affected negatively, just not yourself. Which is why we’re likely to need stricter measures and lockdown, isn’t it? You’re very much a part of the problem, OP.

What some fail to take into account is that it's not just those of us who are cev that this impacts. For example, I have a number of issues with my lungs, so have to be very careful both pre covid and now. So a cold can and has put me in hospital. My family and friends know we cannot meet if they have colds ect.

I'm currently voluntarily isolating. I have done this with the agreement and support of my family and friends. Because when I choose to isolate, it impacts them. For example, my sis and bil were coming to visit me tomorrow. Now, they will have lfts before they come, will wear masks, and will stay on the doorstep, friend the next day will do similar.

And how is my DD to know if she's stood next to someone in the supermarket whose unvaccinated while she's doing our weekly shop? So she keeps away from me, no hugs for two years. Her partner had seen her own Mum twice in two years, because both of us are cev.

I do feel sympathy for people with weakened immune systems, it sounds awful and we've all had a small taste of what it's like to have to isolate and be careful about catching things in the last couple of years. But I think it sounds awful to have that problem before, and after covid too. We can't keep locking down the country, it's had an horrendous effect on so many people's lives and I just don't think that's being taken account of fully. It's not a new normal and I will not accept that we need to come to terms with the fact it is. It's unacceptable that so many people are choosing to not get vaccinated.

@rrhuth it's now happening because lots of people are choosing not to get vaccinated. Before the vaccine was a totally different situation. If you have been fully vaccinated Omicron very likely to be a mild illness.

Oh look yet another goady let’s not protect the CEV thread by an OP minimising the effects of Covid to suit their (or their organisations) agenda. Seriously, is it double pay at the moment? You’re all on red alert that’s for sure.

You got no clue about immunosuppression have you OP? Banging on about vaccines. So helpful.

No I don't know much about it @pastmybestbeforedate. I understand that very vunerable people will still be vunerable after the jabs. But are we potentially locking down solely to protect very vunerable people?

I thought it was to protect the nhs and other vital services? I think if the majority not vunerable people had the vaccine we would not be in the position where we were worried about the NHS melting down and would therefore not be contemplating more restrictions / lockdown.

Yes and no. I'm immunocompromised for life, my body acts as though I'm on chemo but I'm not
I can't isolate for my whole life because there is no financial support and I got hit with this sudden diagnosis so I have to work FT
I have a job that is very supportive and if someone has a cold, I sit in the corridor rather than the office. I'm at high risk of neutropenic sepsis

If I'm exposed to chickenpox then I have to ring my consultant, I have rescue antibiotics for sudden infections and if I get a UTI it has to be treated that day, same with chest infections
I'm not meant o eat raw fruit/veg/salad bags etc but I do as I have a cast iron stomach and am prone to chest/throat things rather than stomach bugs

It's a constant balance of being mid thirties and wanting to be normal and taking precautions
I've had three vaccines and am waiting for my booster but I don't know if I have antibodies. A chest infection turned to pneumonia so I don't really fancy testing how I am with covid!
My condition is rare, around 1 in a million have it as an adult and so how people react to covid with it is unknown really

Well, I go fast tracked into A&E because I had a fluttery feeling in my chest and what I'd describe as a bit of a sniffly nose whilst taking DMARDs and steroids. I always got prescribed antivirals the moment I'd been in contact with somebody who had chickenpox, shingles or cold sores, no questions asked, I always got seen on the day of calling if I felt unwell at all and told that it wouldn't be something to feel guilty about if I decided to give up work and claim benefits.

In addition, it was drummed into me to take care of my feet as though I were diabetic to avoid minor injuries turning into leg threatening infections, avoid anybody with a cold or flu or childhood infectious disease and to call the hospital immediately if I had a temperature.

People may think these instructions were all meant in terms of having a damaged immune system - but I was also told in the same conversations that not being on the medications was just as dangerous because my already hyper immune system meant that when I did get ill, I was seriously ill because my immune system would massively overreact 'it's what killed the young and healthy people in the 1918 flu pandemic'

People not giving a fuck about this prior to Covid doesn't mean it wasn't something people have always needed to do. And I've been ill less since Covid precisely because of distancing, fewer kids and adults coughing and spluttering on the bus, sneezes being caught in masks and ill people staying the hell at home rather than bringing their diseases into work to be seen as being hard workers/of stronger moral fibre.

@JellyOnAPlatewithicecream

“But are we potentially locking down solely to protect very vunerable people?”

You’ve been told multiple times on this thread that we’ve never locked down to protect the vulnerable. The government briefings never said this nor has the media. Faux naïveté doesn’t make a good debate.

You could vaccinate immunosuppressed people as often as you like but plenty of us won't make antibodies in sufficient numbers to be any use. So go and talk to some other group about vaccination.

The thing is if you Have a cold or flu you wouldn't visit someone having say chemo or a very old person
You can have covid though without knowing

The one thing that I hope comes of this is a change to the great British 'carry on and sod the rest of them' attitude.

Fair enough, this is different as it's a pandemic, but honestly, having been immunosuppressed (not long term) and been made really quite unwell by people 'soldiering' into the office (unnecessarily) pre-COVID, I would hope most people at least consider whether they really need to be out and about spreading germs with symptomatic illness. The people whose mild illnesses made me very unwell definitely didn't have to be.

@jellyonaplatewithicecream

Ok lets explain this a different way.

When your child was born you had medical care (yes shit being on your own without babys dad but you had doctors and midwife care). Your child needed medical care for several weeks which was provided. You couldnt isit with dad BUT you could visit. You traveled by bus that was opperational and allowed you to visit the hospital.

Now imagine cases far exceeding the case numbers at that time. There was a christmas party recently of 40 plus midwives from one trust. Now all but 4 of them a covid positive. Now the situation for a baby safe delivery has become far riskier for infant and mother.
The post delivery care will be less robust.
Then the transport company have many staff isolating this reduces availability of busses to get to the hospital.

Not to take away from your experience but please realise that things could get far far worse if omi varient causes even half as many as delta to need medical assistance.

Yes the varient may be far milder and this is everyones hope. But we dont have all the data yet and with a doubling every 2 days rate its a huge gamble to let numbers rise unlimited.

@Covidworries I fully understand that the NHS and public transport melting down would be disastrous. It doesn't take much of an imagination to realise this. Yes me and my baby are alive, I am thankful for that. Although I think as a nation we should be aiming not only to just 'survive'.

@Mickarooni exactly - we're not locking down to protect the vunerable, it's to protect the NHS / services etc, and my point is that if most people were vaccinated these things wouldn't be in danger, because for most people if you've been fully vaccinated you will not end up in hospital with it. So in a way it's neither here nor there if the vaccine works for immunosuppressed people in terms of the governments decision to lockdown / impose restrictions.

And in terms of the issue of staff being off work because of it, people having to isolate poses a bigger threat to the NHS /services, most of them will have it mildly but still not be allowed to go into work for 10 days. Like you say, them passing it onto very vunerable people isn't the issue as that's not the reason we've ever locked down.

Removing the need to isolate will only compound the situation with the risk of more people being ill now and the potential higher death toll, higher long term health complications.

Yes we all want to aim for more than survival. But we are currently in a pandemic and we cant magic out of a pandemic.
In the uk we have had many many years or high quality life. In ither places around the globe... survival is their main aim, we need to survive the pandemic in order to strive for a better tomorrow.

Many, many people have died prematurely since 2020. Yes some would have died regardless but many more wouldnt. Everyone has died innunusual circumstances where they havent been able to have lived ones at bedside

Removing the need to isolate only contributes to a higher death toll if lots of people are unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated and catch covid from someone who isn't isolating you aren't likely to have it badly enough to need hospital let alone die.

I get that before the vaccine we were in survival mode and fully understood the need for restrictions. Now we have a vaccine it's a different story. But people are still going to suffer the horrendous effects of being in lockdown / tighter restrictions, all because lots of people are making a personal choice to not protect themselves by getting the vaccine. It's outrageous.

@JellyOnAPlatewithicecream

Removing the need to isolate only contributes to a higher death toll if lots of people are unvaccinated. If you are vaccinated and catch covid from someone who isn't isolating you aren't likely to have it badly enough to need hospital let alone die.

I get that before the vaccine we were in survival mode and fully understood the need for restrictions. Now we have a vaccine it's a different story. But people are still going to suffer the horrendous effects of being in lockdown / tighter restrictions, all because lots of people are making a personal choice to not protect themselves by getting the vaccine. It's outrageous.

Ah. I see what you're about now. You're against isolation and lockdowns - correct? Even if people are covid-positive, you'd be okay with them walking about in the community - even around the elderly and vulnerable people?

I have to say you are really over-simplifying things to an astonishing degree.

When my DD took immunosuppressants she was out of school for months and we barely went anywhere. It was terrifying how quickly she got seriously ill from a cold which she would have normally shrugged off with no problem.

My CEV friend never used to shield before Covid but has been told by her immunologist she will now have to shield herself to some degree for life. She does go outside sometimes but has strict instructions never to go to supermarkets or other busy places and the advice has changed depending on the covid levels in her community.