Natural immunity

[Mumma331]

Hi all

I have had Covid and have come to the end of my isolation period. I had previously only had 1 vaccine.

Now that I have had Covid, do I really need any more vaccines? Will my body not have produced natural antibodies now and be a little ready for any possible future risk of infection?

I know everyone goes on about the vaccines but surely natural immunity is also a thing?

There’s research that says natural immunity is pretty good but for some reason, it’s not accepted.

I don’t think its guaranteed. My DB and DSIL had Covid at the beginning. They were asked to donate blood for antibodies but neither had any.

Clearly you don't need a vaccine.

However you might soon find you don't realistically have a choice. Already if you happen to want to continue to work for Google, you won't.

Funnily enough though, it's also suggested as being one of the reasons for why SA has managed so far to get through Omnicron relatively lightly. Seems to be accepted as a thing when it suits.

@DayKay

There’s research that says natural immunity is pretty good but for some reason, it’s not accepted.

Not sure what you mean by this @DayKay

It's widely researched & reported by the media, and used to inform policy. In the UK, the vaccine passport allows for a previous infection as an alternative to vaccination.

There is good quality research demonstrating the in people with a previous infection, vaccination significantly reduces your chance of reinfection, and that vaccination + infection (ideally in that order) provides a good level of immunity.

@Mumma331, public health bodies recommend everyone is vaccinated as it's becoming clear that infection provides a certain level of immunity (which will vary depending on lots of factors like how severe the original infection is), but this will be boosted by vaccination, or subsequent exposure to coronavirus.

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-17/omicron-gets-around-previous-covid-infection-u-k-study-warns

From Imperial College: "Having had Covid probably only offers 19% protection against omicron, the study showed on Friday. That was roughly in line with two doses of vaccine, which the team estimated were as much as 20% effective against omicron. Adding a booster dose helped dramatically, blocking an estimated 55% to 80% of symptomatic cases."

Immunity is not just antibodies. T-cells are longer lasting.

It's also more important now that we have omicron - it's more likely to evade to prior immunity (both from vaccination or a previous infection), so any boosting will be helpful in preventing you getting it again.

I'd say no.

I had two vax in the Spring/summer.
Then delta in August.
Then a booster.
Now I have Omicron.

I clearly had no natural immunity!

Every exposure to Covid, whether that’s the virus or the vaccine, stimulates your immune system and increases your protection, although it wanes over time.

The difference is that exposure to the virus is much more likely to make you ill than having a vaccine.

@riveted1 the recognition of natural immunity is only temporary when it’s possible it could be for many years, perhaps even lifetime.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9

@DayKay

There’s research that says natural immunity is pretty good but for some reason, it’s not accepted.

The reason being there is no money to be made from it.

some people still prefer to rely on natural immunity, instead of getting vaccinated. However, our latest analysis shows that a previous COVID-19 infection and being double vaccinated gives longer-lasting protection than vaccination or natural immunity alone
covid.joinzoe.com/post/do-i-need-a-covid-vaccine-if-ive-had-covid

[quote DayKay]@riveted1 the recognition of natural immunity is only temporary when it’s possible it could be for many years, perhaps even lifetime.

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01442-9[/quote]
As has been said before when this article is linked, the authors themselves recommend vaccination, and caution this does not mean someone with a previous infection should not be vaccinated.

You also don't seem to be taking in the (more recent) research which demonstrates how vaccinated reduces the chance of reinfection?

@actiongirl1978 How ill were you in August with Delta?
I ask as I'm curious whether a mild case gives lower immunity than a serious case.

@Siuan I was pretty ill for me. Not hospital ill, but I was debilitated for a couple of weeks. I usually lift weights but if you'd have handed me a tin of beans to lift, I would have felt exhausted at the thought.

I had a cough, smell and taste went and incredibly weak and tired. I said it felt like AFTER you have flu, when you feel totally wiped out.

I don’t believe the previous infection only has 19% efficacy against Omicron figure from Imperial College else why are low vaxxed South Africa doing better than that with it?

Interesting study from Israel (usual caveats that it’s not yet peer reviewed etc) but shows vaccine post infection doesn’t add much benefit. Ultimately most research is funded by pharmaceutical companies so there’ll be limited studies on natural immunity.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.04.21267114v1.full

I read this on Sky News earlier tonight.

“there is significantly increased risk of developing a symptomatic Omicron case compared with Delta for those who were two or more weeks past their second vaccine dose, and two or more weeks past their booster dose.”

Is that saying there’s a significantly increased risk of developing omicron if you are two ore more weeks past your booster date??

There was some early research done (I mean early 2020 sonit could have been disproven now, so much is coming out all the time its hard to keep up!) suggesting women of child bearing age *might have slightly better defences against COVID due to higher numbers of Natural Killer cells.

Also the antibodies thing is a bit of a red herring, what we need to know really is whether the immune system has saved the calling card to be able to make antibodies if reinfected. I know this because-unfortunately-when I was 17 I worked in a hospital and was given a full course of Hep B immunisations. Hospital lost my records so when I went to study nursing, I had to have the course again. They test after 3 doses to check for antibodies. I had none because my body had already responded to the vaccine course. I was then given a further 5...yes 5...doses as they attempted to elicit an antibody response. It never happened. In the end I said please dont make me have any more injections-and the nurse said it was pretty clear my body had done what it was supposed to on the first time of asking.
I have been tested for antibodies pre vaccination, but post infection with COVID and had none. I worked on a COVID designated unit and one of my children also contracted it in school and was pretty ill next to me in bed-didnt catch it because I had already had it. I am now double vaccinated as well.

It means that vaccines are more effective against Delta than against Omicron. So if you are two weeks past your vaccine (i.e. the vaccine has kicked in and is providing the best level of protection), your risk of catching Omicron is significantly higher than your risk of catching Delta.

[quote Awakened22]Interesting study from Israel (usual caveats that it’s not yet peer reviewed etc) but shows vaccine post infection doesn’t add much benefit. Ultimately most research is funded by pharmaceutical companies so there’ll be limited studies on natural immunity.

www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.04.21267114v1.full[/quote]
Have you read the manscript you linked?

..furthermore, we found that a single dose of vaccine given to a previously infected individual or to an uninfected doubly vaccinated individual (i.e., a booster dose) restores the protection to the level in the early months following recovery or vaccination.

You also seem to be ignoring all literature that replicates this finding - vaccination in those previously infection reduces the risk of reinfection.

Ultimately most research is funded by pharmaceutical companies so there’ll be limited studies on natural immunity.

Do you work in scientific research? While plenty of research is funded by pharmaceutics/industry, it certainly isn't the case that most of it is.

There's a huge amount of research (>1000 preprints) on immunity post coronavirus infection, it's an incredibly intensively studied area.