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Time to think about closing the schools

545 replies

DolphinFC · 16/12/2021 16:44

ONS survey finds that education staff are 37% more likely to catch Covid than other workers.

Previous data showed they were no more likely to catch covid than other workers and many people (especially MNetters) felt that this was all the proof needed to keep schools open.

Well, new data shows the reverse is now the case.

Time to think about closing the schools
OP posts:
ParsleySageRosemary · 16/12/2021 18:34

[quote Monkeytennis97]@walksen yeah the retired army of teachers. Hilarious. The generation of teachers who were 'capabilitied' out are going to be oh so desperate to volunteer. 😂[/quote]
I laughed my head off at this idea. Maybe they should look after new teacher trainees and ensure they're not paying fees to be abused and exploited in crap workplace placements, look after new entrants rather than creating new extended hoops for them to jump through, and actually pay decent wages to both those and the TAs whom they're now expecting to act as junior teachers on not much more than they could get in a supermarket.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 16/12/2021 18:34

@codexa

The issue of schools closing wouldn't have anything to do with kids on people's hands rather than the gap in education would it?

Teachers and associated professions are not respected as they are in other countries, and I am astonished at how crap their pay is. To me they are doing the country a great service and should be commended every day of the week.

Many of those up in arms are balking at the idea of having kids under their feet rather than at school.

I know, I know, plenty of jobs are risky Covid wise, and people have to work etc. but still.....

It's both. It's not about having kids "under their feet", it's about not being able to work AND supervise learning! You make it sound as if people don't want their kids around, but it's either ignore your kids all day, or ignore your job and get the sack.

I was furloughed during the first lockdown so I had the time, but not the skills, to help DS. I am not a teacher and his education suffered.

Sowhatifiam · 16/12/2021 18:35

but it's either ignore your kids all day, or ignore your job and get the sack

You realise this is the same for teachers, right?

Waxonwaxoff0 · 16/12/2021 18:36

@Sowhatifiam

but it's either ignore your kids all day, or ignore your job and get the sack

You realise this is the same for teachers, right?

Where did I say it wasn't?
Monkeytennis97 · 16/12/2021 18:37

@Rosesareyellow teenagers also don't wear masks and pick noses etc etc

As a teacher I wasn't surprised we weren't prioritised for vaccines. Remember Jenny Harries et al in 2020 saying schools weren't places where COVID would spread. Ha ha. Absolute tosh.

IHateCoronavirus · 16/12/2021 18:40

I took my DD to a cardiac apt at our local hospital last week. We were the only ones in the pediatric unit, masked and hand gelled to within an inch of our lives. We had to go to the adult bit to get an ecg and we saw three other patients in our whole time there, all spread out. Staff were wearing full PPE. Willing to bet the staff there were safer then her teachers teaching 5+ classes of 30+ Kids Very few whom are wearing masks let alone masks properly.

QueefofSheena · 16/12/2021 18:42

They’ll be closing anyway or not reopening straight away in January if staff are sick and there’s no supply. How many of you who are vehemently against schools closing are also not going to take notice of further restrictions? The selfishness on here staggers me

ancientgran · 16/12/2021 18:42

@Silversun83

Every single child is currently behind where they should be.
I'm sure lots are but not every single child. One of my GC was behind at the start of the pandemic. He did brilliantly with home schooling and is definitely not behind now.
GingerScallop · 16/12/2021 18:44

@starrynight19

None of our staff want school to close either we just wish we could get some help to make it safer. The way this is going there won’t be any staff to keep schools open anyway. Luckily we have had an email from the education secretary to try and encourage anyone we know to become supply staff as he has at least acknowledged that there just aren’t enough of them to fill this ever growing staff absence.
I don't know what the answer is but feel making school safer rather than closing is the way. Otherwise when will kids ever socialise and learn together? I know there is online learning but there is also proof the poor are more left behind by it. The UK can't afford to keep this gap growing. Learn from countries like South Africa, Brazil, Mexico what extreme inequality does!

And I've seen some kids become shells of their former selves after loosing touch with friends in previous lockdowns.
I wish I had some teaching knowledge/experience or knowledge of the UK education system. I would likely volunteer because I think teachers (and health staff, supermarket staff, etc) have been amazing under very difficult circumstances

TooManyPlatesInMotion · 16/12/2021 18:44

@codexa

The issue of schools closing wouldn't have anything to do with kids on people's hands rather than the gap in education would it?

Teachers and associated professions are not respected as they are in other countries, and I am astonished at how crap their pay is. To me they are doing the country a great service and should be commended every day of the week.

Many of those up in arms are balking at the idea of having kids under their feet rather than at school.

I know, I know, plenty of jobs are risky Covid wise, and people have to work etc. but still.....

Kids under feet?! Erm no. Losing the ability to work and pay my bills, my kids suffering socially, educationally and psychologically, yes. Ffs.
GotToGoBye · 16/12/2021 18:47

I’m ok with educational workers catching covid. I think it’s good to avoid covid but we’re all going to get it.

Orchid876 · 16/12/2021 18:49

I'm a teacher currently isolating with Covid. Given that I didn't get it from my own children, I've caught it from work, and I'm going to be isolating for Christmas. I still don't think schools should close. I think schools should be made safer, ventilation and air filtration systems would be a good start, like has been done in other countries. We're nearly 2 years into this, other countries have been working to make schools safer since spring 2020, but our government have done nothing. I really don't want to go back to online teaching, my job needs to be done face to face. But I also know that my vulnerable colleagues aren't protected, there is no shielding for CEV teachers because apparently if they're double jabbed they're safe. I have a colleague with Long Covid who cannot work yet his sick pay is about to end. Getting retired on medical grounds with Long Covid is virtually impossible as noone knows what the prognosis is. It's a massive fight he doesn't have the energy for at the moment, so he's living off savings. The impact of Covid isn't even being factored into Ofsted inspections FFS, so not only do schools get no thanks for soldiering on through, with barely any staff, they get told that actually they're doing a shit job and should be doing better because "Covid is over and Ofsted don't want to hear about Covid".

Teachers, like lots of other front line workers have been treated like crap, and even if schools don't close, the culmination of that over time will be schools that just don't have enough teachers to staff them. I know so many colleagues leaving at Christmas, this never usually happens, my school don't have a high staff turnover and resignations mid year are usually incredibly rare. They're going to work in private schools where class sizes are smaller and the pay is better so the job is more bearable, or they're leaving teaching all together.

No teacher wants schools to close, but the fall out from this in terms of staffing will be immense. In the short term, in Jan/Feb, everyone will be off sick so I can't see how schools can possibly stay open. Even if they're vaccinated so not too ill, they still won't be in schools when Covid positive. In the long term the effect that Covid has had on schools, and the demoralised workforce, will really hit recruitment and retention, and that was at crisis levels before Covid. I don't think the Education secretary understands that we've been trying to get anyone and everyone who could possibly come in to provide cover for us since this first kicked off, but we just can't persuade them. We don't have an army of retired teachers willing to work for us in Covid times. In past years they would come back for a couple of days a week if we were short staffed, and we've been short staffed throughout this pandemic and no-one will come back. Teachers are retiring early to get away from schools. It's a car crash and the government have not helped in any way, when there are things they could do. Scrap Ofsted inspections for a few years (it may seem trivial if you're not in education, but the stress caused by Ofsted is a big driving factor behind teachers leaving). Put proper safety precautions in place. Protect vulnerable teachers and support those with Long Covid, so teachers don't quit for fear of being unable to feed their families if they do get Covid. What we're actually left with is a very hostile working environment, which means teachers leave, which means schools are short staffed, more pressure on remaining staff, so there is no spare capacity and they're more likely to close. Supply teachers don't exist, even if schools had the money to pay them they just aren't available. I'm sure it's the same in hospitals and most of the public sector though. Everyone working in the public sector desperately wants it to function, and to function well. But the government have done nothing at all to help it function, to prepare for this kind of eventuality. In fact after more than 10 years of austerity we're less prepared than ever before. E

Boxachocs · 16/12/2021 18:50

As a teacher, what I’d like is the rubbish that was spouted before about schools being ‘safe’ to be acknowledged as false and for the line to change to ‘actually we know covid does spread in schools but it’s so important that children are in education so we have to take all the measures we can to keep them open’. Just that change in attitude would be a good place to start, I’m sick of people told I’m more likely to catch it in the staff room than the classroom.
That said, let’s be honest, if the hospitals fill up and people end up dying outside them (of anything including non covid things) waiting to be admitted, then the reality is that everything will have to shut again as before. I hope that doesn’t happen but we wouldn’t be able to continue as we were if that happened.

Orchid876 · 16/12/2021 18:51

Everyone can will schools to stay open all they want, the government can even pass legislation to mandate it. But schools aren't buildings they're people, and we just don't have the people.

EarPlugAfficionado · 16/12/2021 18:51

@NearlyAlwaysInsane

Tosh. So they're more likely to catch Covid than healthcare workers then? Hmmmmmmmmmm.
Oh, do teachers wear full PPE which they change regularly like NHS staff then? Confused
MajorCarolDanvers · 16/12/2021 18:51

No thank you - kids have missed enough already.

Orchid876 · 16/12/2021 18:52

I completely agree @Boxachocs, a change in tone in the dialogue towards schools would help immensely. Let's just have a grown-up conversion about it and stop the gaslighting.

WashWam · 16/12/2021 18:53

@Boxachocs

As a teacher, what I’d like is the rubbish that was spouted before about schools being ‘safe’ to be acknowledged as false and for the line to change to ‘actually we know covid does spread in schools but it’s so important that children are in education so we have to take all the measures we can to keep them open’. Just that change in attitude would be a good place to start, I’m sick of people told I’m more likely to catch it in the staff room than the classroom. That said, let’s be honest, if the hospitals fill up and people end up dying outside them (of anything including non covid things) waiting to be admitted, then the reality is that everything will have to shut again as before. I hope that doesn’t happen but we wouldn’t be able to continue as we were if that happened.

As a teacher, I agree with this 100%

codexa · 16/12/2021 18:54

Kids are very resilient. All this talk about their mental health is just becoming tiring now since sending them in to "socialise" has a high price for the teaching profession and the spread of disease.

In comparison to other workers, teachers really do have to run the gauntlet every day, and all we hear is "no way", "schools must stay open", "kids need to socialise", "what about their mental health" and so on.

Everyone suffers during a pandemic and as others have said, schools are a significant vector of spread, and teachers do not (cannot?) wear full PPE as those coming into close contact with others can and do.

If people had more respect for teachers, this conversation would not be happening I reckon. I am not a teacher, and do not know anyone who teaches either, but common sense would tell you that schools are dangerous places for the spread of any infection.

Monkeytennis97 · 16/12/2021 18:55

@Boxachocs

As a teacher, what I’d like is the rubbish that was spouted before about schools being ‘safe’ to be acknowledged as false and for the line to change to ‘actually we know covid does spread in schools but it’s so important that children are in education so we have to take all the measures we can to keep them open’. Just that change in attitude would be a good place to start, I’m sick of people told I’m more likely to catch it in the staff room than the classroom. That said, let’s be honest, if the hospitals fill up and people end up dying outside them (of anything including non covid things) waiting to be admitted, then the reality is that everything will have to shut again as before. I hope that doesn’t happen but we wouldn’t be able to continue as we were if that happened.
Totally agree.
MarshaBradyo · 16/12/2021 18:58

Kids are very resilient. All this talk about their mental health is just becoming tiring now

I thought this, and whole post, was not serious for a bit.

Incredible

ThatsMySantaHisBeardIsSoFluffy · 16/12/2021 18:59

@Silversun83

Every single child is currently behind where they should be.
Oh, you'd better tell my kids' teachers that they're wrong about them being either where they should be, or ahead, right now. 🤷‍♀️

Their school says they want to stay open. Whether that's lip service, I don't know. I'd think not.

FourTeaFallOut · 16/12/2021 19:00

Kids are very resilient. All this talk about their mental health is just becoming tiring now since sending them in to "socialise" has a high price for the teaching profession and the spread of disease.

The number of camh referrals doubled after lockdown.

Veeveeoxox · 16/12/2021 19:00

@IHateCoronavirus

I took my DD to a cardiac apt at our local hospital last week. We were the only ones in the pediatric unit, masked and hand gelled to within an inch of our lives. We had to go to the adult bit to get an ecg and we saw three other patients in our whole time there, all spread out. Staff were wearing full PPE. Willing to bet the staff there were safer then her teachers teaching 5+ classes of 30+ Kids Very few whom are wearing masks let alone masks properly.
Whilst you might have experienced that in the outpatients have you ever been to a dementia ward? PPE and infection control goes out the window.
BewareTheRedNosedDragon · 16/12/2021 19:00

Two of my dc were severely negatively affected by the schools closing before.

One, who has SEN and was behind in any case, basically was completely unable to settle into secondary school, was barely able to work at home (because he needs 1:1 with an educational professional in order to learn stuff), and is now in Y9, having missed so much education in the last two years and unable to cope this term so that he was on a severely reduced timetable. He is a clever boy but COVID combined with his SEN has scuppered his chances of achieving anything more that 1 basic GCSE according to his last report. He will likely be living with the negative effects for the rest of his life Sad

The other - no SEN and no previous issues - after lockdown 1 developed such severe anxiety about going to school, he spent months taking up to 40 minutes at the gate to be able to go in in the morning, it's only in this last term - with considerable morning adjustments from the school - that he has got ti a place where he happily goes in again.

My dc are not the only ones to have been affected like this. Closing schools will seriously affect so many childrens life chances.

I totally support any measures that make school safer but not closure, no.