One in three Londoners unvaxxed?

[JanisMoplin]

I saw this stat whiz by on Twitter, but could not find a source. If true, can anyone tell me why? Is it because London has a larger proportion of the young and children? It is alarming.

@Gonnagetgoing

A quick snapshot of my local area (London suburbs) reveals that people of my age (approx 50) and in 40's where possible are all vaccinated and including my DP's who are older. This includes a range of ethnicities and ages. Some haven't got booster yet but are waiting on it. DB and his DW in London also vaccinated including booster but her DF has an immune compromised condition (not in London).

Most people in my street (ranging from 30s to elderly) some with health condition if younger - the 30s ones aren't vaccinated or only 1 or 2 jabs, these have then been people who've caught Covid and has been from DC at primary school or DC at secondary school. Two DPs who temporarily relocated to Canada over summer have got all vaccinations. One parent has a DC who's 17 who is an anti-vaxxer and unsure if she and her new DH are vaccinated. London family friends who have DC, have heard of one DC who's in 20s but living at home who recently caught Covid, he has a DSis with diabetes and anxiety who's worried about Covid. A close relative of theirs in early 50s has recently caught Covid through visiting her DPs.

I'd guess that teens and in 20's won't get the vaccine at all.

How do you know all this?!

And of those, there are an awful lot who have bought their vaccination status too. So it is even less

Only 60% of my borough have had the first vaccine and it is less for the second.

@MsWarrensProfession

Westminster's apparent low take up is probably specific to that location and driven by very different factors to the low uptake rate in socially deprived areas.

Although in inner London you can have both factors in adjacent streets in the same MSOA. I happen to know that the large brand new tower blocks round Tottenham Hale have a high number of well off highly mobile and/or international owners and occupants who may well have moved home or been vaccinated in other countries. The council estates one street over might have genuinely low uptakes for other reasons.

I can guarantee you that my area doesn't have a lot of highly mobile and / or intentional owners. Why is only 60% of the population here vaccinated?

I would count as a vaccine refused in my old borough but I am fully vaxxed and in Australia.

There was lots of Covid in London well before the first lockdown last year. I had it just before myself.

I suppose once you realise that the story you're being told by the media is not reality you start to wonder.

There are five different drivers at work in London VampiresWife.

A) wealthy overseas-based second home owners. Significant driver of K&C numbers and probably a slight driver of Haringey numbers at the Highgate end. Bishops Avenue is in Haringey. Effect on vaccination rates purely illusory.
B) mobile young adults shifting home to other areas in London/UK/overseas but not changing GP address. Effect on vaccination rates purely illusory, probably a factor in both K&C and Haringey (there are lots of student and young working adult flats in both boroughs).
C) Younger population in London than elsewhere. Effect on vax rate is real but not a specific cause for concern.
D) more international population may have been vaccinated elsewhere in last year - maybe not a big effect but I know a couple of people in that situation. Effect is illusory.
E) socially deprived population and population from certain minority groups, especially African and Caribbean heritages, are not taking up vaccine for a variety of reasons. Real effect, real problem, probably much more of an issue in Haringey than K&C

I live in an affluent part of central London that is very international—I can tell you that I’ve never knowingly met anyone unvaccinated but I know a lot of people who would show up unvaccinated on these surveys. They’re had at least 1 of their doses overseas and haven’t had it updated on NHS records. Many have moved around London and are getting texts from old GPs saying get your vaccine, why haven’t you, etc. Loads of them also have a UK address but are based overseas a lot of the time, again battled hassled to arrange a vaccine when they’re already done. This is people from 20s to 60s. The reason the stats are showing so low in areas like Westminster and K&C is because of these sorts of factors—there are areas in outer London that have genuinely low rates but in central affluent London I actually couldn’t find even a friend of a friend who hasn’t had both, and vast majority had booster too.

My mother’s cleaner is Bulgarian, with a pharmacy degree. She is lovely. But unvaccinated as she says she is worried about her fertility. I don’t know what the answer is. She has already had Covid once. Perhaps targeted information in other languages plasterered all over areas where non-English speakers live and work?

Hart (North Hampshire) on the left, Haringey (North London) on the right. Quite a difference!

@Flowers500

I live in an affluent part of central London that is very international—I can tell you that I’ve never knowingly met anyone unvaccinated but I know a lot of people who would show up unvaccinated on these surveys. They’re had at least 1 of their doses overseas and haven’t had it updated on NHS records. Many have moved around London and are getting texts from old GPs saying get your vaccine, why haven’t you, etc. Loads of them also have a UK address but are based overseas a lot of the time, again battled hassled to arrange a vaccine when they’re already done. This is people from 20s to 60s. The reason the stats are showing so low in areas like Westminster and K&C is because of these sorts of factors—there are areas in outer London that have genuinely low rates but in central affluent London I actually couldn’t find even a friend of a friend who hasn’t had both, and vast majority had booster too.

Well if you can't find a friend of a friend who hasn't been vaccinated, the data must be wrong.

I live in a non affluent area of zone 2 so not 'outer London' - considered inner London for data purposes and I can well believe the stats for this area. Lambeth, Lewisham and Southwark and really diverse areas. They got hit massively in the first wave and I wouldn't be surprised if there was an assumption there was natural immunity. But there are also large ethnic 'minorities' at greater risk but who don't trust the vaccines.

This was also reported in the Telegraph. It blew my mind.

@silentpool

I would count as a vaccine refused in my old borough but I am fully vaxxed and in Australia.

If you’ve provided your Australian records to the NHS to facilitate a NHS Covid pass then you will be recorded as vaccinated.

I’m not convinced the overseas vaxxers are adding to the unvaxxed statistics as most will have sought a NHS Covid pass.

@oneglassandpuzzled

My mother’s cleaner is Bulgarian, with a pharmacy degree. She is lovely. But unvaccinated as she says she is worried about her fertility. I don’t know what the answer is. She has already had Covid once. Perhaps targeted information in other languages plasterered all over areas where non-English speakers live and work?

In the first wave, Neasden Temple did a huge drive with information in English, Hindi and Gujarati for the S Asian Hindu community. More drives by religious figures and information in local languages would certainly help.

@Porridgeislife what if they moved overseas permanently? Like the previous occupants of my flat who are still registered to the NHS. they wouldn't need a nhs covid pass. same with my SIL who has not returned to uk since she immigrated to israel.

Dd was a carer before moving to London so got vaccinated before her age group but had she not been she would only just be getting her 2nd dose (which would have been further delayed due to her catching covid earlier in the year.)

London is full of young people like her who move in and out of the area. Plus a more diverse population who statistically are less likely to take the vaccine.

My daughter in Birmingham worked at a vaccine centre in July where Pakistani men stood outside and talked to pedestrians persuading them in. It did work.

I'm in Haringey. Our house had previously been an HMO before we bought it and there 2 bunk beds to all rooms bar the bathroom and kitchen. We contininue to receive NHS letters and traffic offence notifications for numerous tenants who clearly have not changed address with their GP. 🤷‍♀️

[quote onlychildhamster]@Porridgeislife what if they moved overseas permanently? Like the previous occupants of my flat who are still registered to the NHS. they wouldn't need a nhs covid pass. same with my SIL who has not returned to uk since she immigrated to israel.[/quote]
It’s not going to account for 40% of the population though. There will be a small number in that situation but no one’s suggesting that the population has fallen by even 10%, it was estimated to be about 3% in January.

People also are removed from GP registers once they haven’t accessed its services after a certain number of months. It’s a central requirement as GPs are paid a fixed sum per registered patient.

Talking of London,I’ve had my booster now, I’m mid thirties, and know many people in the Barking and Dagenham/ Newham areas who are unvaccinated for a myriad of reasons.

I feel like some won’t get it done, and will only end up doing it begrudgingly once it begins to affect their liberties and where they can and can’t go.

Do I think it’s selfish?

Personally knowing of a young mum who got a clot on the brain following the AZ, and another friend whose father died of a blood clot following being vaccinated, I can’t say I do find it selfish, to be honest, no.

You don’t know what people are going through, or what their reasons are.

I had a surprising conversation with a friend who lives in a very affluent area of London. She hasn’t been vaccinated as she “just hasn’t had the time to book it”. She also didn’t want to get ill from it and have to take time off. She says lots her social group are the same and think that if enough “other people” have had the vax it will mean there is no need to get it for themselves. I was pretty but she assured(!?) me that there are lots of people she knows that think this way. It was a shockingly entitled attitude that made me think quite differently about her.

So your statistics don’t surprise me one bit.

I've been looking into this online as I was really intrigued, it's fascinating how little idea we actually have at the moment of the London population. The data splashed in The Times is apparently using population estimates from around 2010-11, there's GLA analysis that shows completely different vaccination rates for London:

twitter.com/jdportes/status/1471145178933211144

They don't have exact numbers just graphs but looks like they're saying high 80s or 90s for older people, and at least 75% for everyone over 18

We do have a younger population which must make a difference

There is also mistrust among some minority communities, and who can blame them?

There are some Labour politicians like David Lammy working really hard to encourage up take among ethnic minority groups but it’s hard when people have been treated badly for a long time

Many people in London move country and therefore don't need to switch GP The whole point is though that you should no longer be on a GP's books if you're not resident. Particularly the sibling in Israel. You do realise that GPs are paid per patient on their books? So GPs with lots of non-resident patients are making money that shouldn't be going to them?

@NewModelArmyMayhem18

Many people in London move country and therefore don't need to switch GP The whole point is though that you should no longer be on a GP's books if you're not resident. Particularly the sibling in Israel. You do realise that GPs are paid per patient on their books? So GPs with lots of non-resident patients are making money that shouldn't be going to them?

Yes, then people like my dd can't get a local GP. She ended up registering with an online type GP.

It's not the GP's fault of they don't know a person has moved.