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Schools - why are they doing this?

744 replies

Scrooge89 · 16/12/2021 07:14

Why are the media preparing us for school closures? They simply can’t do this to us…

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-59673271

Not to my children. My youngest struggled so much at home and was one of the 25% who couldn’t go to school (although I saw how much some people fudged the key worker card I may have to do it).

OP posts:
shreddednips · 16/12/2021 17:44

@Appuskidu

Well, I will be intrigued to see the figures for how many retired teachers sign up.
I suspect they are destined to be disappointed. Aside from the risk, many ex-teachers will be working in other jobs. The pay for day-to-day supply is also very low. I would actually consider doing supply to cover, I'm a freelancer but my work is extremely flexible. However, the pay is so poor through supply agencies that I just couldn't afford to do it. If they want ex-teachers to step up, they need to ensure they're remunerated a decent wage. From what I remember, I used to earn less on supply than I did as an NQT.
KatherineofGaunt · 16/12/2021 17:56

The problem is, if retired teachers earn over a certain amount it affects their pensions. I can't see many wanting to do that and they certainly won't be volunteering.

My BIL is a headteacher retiring this term. He's doing 1 1/2 days of tutoring but nothing else so he can get his pension too.

Bobholll · 16/12/2021 17:59

It school close, I’ll be using the key worker card even though I can happily WFH. I refuse to have my child be one of 10 who had to stay at home last time while 20 got to go in for a normal week at school.

Awful. Blanket school closures is ludicrous. But if they do it, then I’m playing the system. I ‘have’ to go to work. They can fuck right off as far as I’m concerned.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 16/12/2021 18:13

I’m a retired ex teacher.

No way am l going back after 10 years of being shat on by this government.

MoistTowelette · 16/12/2021 18:44

@Imdreamingofapeacefulxmas

Pink my friend is supply but actually has no teaching training or background or anything at all (degree educated) she's just a crowd control baby sitter. What education is that?
Really? I'm a teacher and never heard of this being allowed. The rules are quite strict, hence the shortage
MoistTowelette · 16/12/2021 19:22

[quote OnceuponaRainbow18]@StormyTeacups

Single form primary is very different to a 1800 student secondary[/quote]
Agree 100%

NinaDefoe · 16/12/2021 19:40

Teachers are not contracted to work during that time, it isn't holiday. They are contracted to work the rest of the year.

Therefore at most you could ask for volunteers to teach during that time for a contract rate.

You may or may not like that but changing contracts takes money and negotiation, especially when its a workforce in short supply.

No matter how many times it’s explained on MN threads, people still don’t understand that teachers are only paid for their contracted hours and get statutory paid holiday leave the same as everyone else.
The extra weeks are unpaid.

Sowhatifiam · 16/12/2021 19:51

Really? I'm a teacher and never heard of this being allowed. The rules are quite strict, hence the shortage

Really? You’re unaware of cover supervisors? That school budgets have been squeezed and squeezed since 2010 and that day to day supply is now largely reduced to CS rates - round here no more than £75 a day? No qualifications required, just a clear DBS on the update service. Supply teachers now need to take longer term contracts to get paid as actual teachers. And even then, agencies will try and fob them off with M1 level pay. Teachers with years of experience and bags full of resources will never get beyond M6 and they generally need to know how to play the game to get it. If you add I. The fact that many supply teachers were overlooked for furlough, there’s a shortage because they are sick of being treated so badly when they are qualified professionals playing a vital role in the running of our schools.

cansu · 16/12/2021 20:13

Mrs Hamlet
Teachers are not paid in the summer holidays and therefore do not work during them.

Timeturnerplease · 16/12/2021 20:17

Classes/schools are being closed by default due to staff sickness. All class teachers at our primary are double vaccinated but covid has just whipped through and wiped them out, many have been quite poorly.

This issue is also affecting supply. I’m on maternity leave and popped in this week to drop off cards and gifts for my class. Ended up teaching the first part of a maths lesson with my 4 month old on my hip as the head and deputy were off with covid, three teachers were down and the TA who was supposed to be covering the third class got to school and had to go home again as she felt so rough. No supply to be found anywhere. I covered until a school in the next village, who we are friendly with, could send someone across to help.

I think it’s going to be like this for a while anyway. I do wonder how the situation would be different if mitigations were put in place, e.g. ventilation systems….

MrsHamlet · 16/12/2021 20:20

@cansu

Mrs Hamlet Teachers are not paid in the summer holidays and therefore do not work during them.
I know. I am a teacher.
StormyTeacups · 16/12/2021 20:21

Yes of course it hence, hence my making a point of saying it. There will be lots of schools like ours which will be similarly effected or not.

cansu · 16/12/2021 20:30

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

MrsHamlet · 16/12/2021 20:32

@cansu

Well why are you supposing that teachers will decide to work for free during time they are not contracted to work. I smell something rather whiffy...maybe its bullshit!
Are you talking to me? Because I haven't said that at all. So you can call bullshit all you like, but you're wrong.
SpeckledHem · 16/12/2021 20:34

It’s only for a couple of days to allow SLT to plan, what happens after that is down to the number of cases which we all have responsibility for

TheHoneyBadger · 17/12/2021 04:12

Comparing it to people having their paid leave cancelled is a nonsense. Again this is not 'holiday' or paid leave for teachers - we can't book leave or holiday. We are not employed or paid for those months of the year.

A truer analogy would be a whole workforce on permanent contracts to work 9-5 being told they had to the night shift instead.

The downside is we can never book time off or have any holiday allowance that is bookable (though the equivalent four weeks pay or whatever the statutory amount is is added to our annual salary). The upside is we only work for 39 weeks a year on paper at least. If you want to start messing around with my contract and completely changing the months of employment then I want what you probably have which is the right to choose when I'll take my statutory 4 weeks holiday each year. I shall take advantage of cheap flights, or more presciently in these days take advantage of being allowed to fly and leave the country when borders are open and restrictions don't make it impossible. Actually if that was the case I'd happily have a few weeks off in January with no remote learning to set but be warned come March I'd be taking my a few weeks off my statutory annual leave to finally get out of here and go deal with my affairs in the middle east and get some sunshine.

NinaDefoe · 17/12/2021 08:14

Are people suggesting teachers should take their holiday (statutory leave - same number of paid days as everyone else) during a lockdown?

Then work during the uncontracted, unpaid weeks in the summer to make up for any extra time lost?

I don’t think so.

borntobequiet · 17/12/2021 08:26

One of the great things about retiring from teaching was having the freedom to take holidays somewhere warm in November and February.

KatherineofGaunt · 17/12/2021 08:37

@NinaDefoe

Are people suggesting teachers should take their holiday (statutory leave - same number of paid days as everyone else) during a lockdown?

Then work during the uncontracted, unpaid weeks in the summer to make up for any extra time lost?

I don’t think so.

Deja vu! People were saying it last year, too.
BustopherPonsonbyJones · 17/12/2021 08:42

@NinaDefoe

Are people suggesting teachers should take their holiday (statutory leave - same number of paid days as everyone else) during a lockdown?

Then work during the uncontracted, unpaid weeks in the summer to make up for any extra time lost?

I don’t think so.

I think they are! How unbelievably lacking in awareness.

What a joke after the ‘support’ we haven’t been given this year.

TheHoneyBadger · 17/12/2021 09:16

I'm happy to take furlough instead if I can't work from home because people would rather have no education for their teens than have to do a bit of facilitating in the evening helping them organise their workload.

RoseAndRose · 17/12/2021 09:46

@NinaDefoe

Are people suggesting teachers should take their holiday (statutory leave - same number of paid days as everyone else) during a lockdown?

Then work during the uncontracted, unpaid weeks in the summer to make up for any extra time lost?

I don’t think so.

If so they should get what they wish for.

DC on holiday during lockdown, and in school during what used to be the summer holidays.

It would go down like a cup of cold sick, wouldn't it?

TheHoneyBadger · 17/12/2021 09:50

Thank god we do it for our students not their parents because the kind of attitudes you see on here towards teachers would definitely not keep the already short number of teachers in role or attract quality candidates to the profession.

Thankfully most parents in real life are so much nicer than the very vocal and entitled minority who fill so much space on mn. I should know, I'm a parent myself and I get to read the emails of and have phonecalls with parents (generally of the most challenging students) on a regular basis and the vast majority are nothing like the vocal ones on here.

Our HT regularly shares with us the emails from parents thanking us for all we've done to keep their kids in school, to accommodate kids with very challenging needs, to support and keep in touch with students who are off due to covid etc.

Our students too for the most part, even most of the children of the more challenging parents, are polite and express gratitude. I get to share a fairly warm and amusing and engaging relationship with the majority of my classes despite having to teach them, administer discipline, introduce and enforce standards and expectations that in some cases they only encounter in school etc. Even after a lesson of nagging and moaning and having to give out a few warnings many will still say thanks Miss, have a nice day Miss. Many of them know that the nagging and moaning and pushing means we actually give a shit. They're also capable of recognising that sometimes we're in there sick and knackered when we should probably be in bed but still turning up for them and giving them 100% of our attention and energy and bothering to nag and moan.

We work on a restorative model. Not always popular with teachers I know and with good reasons sometimes but we're committed to it and for me personally that means going out of my way to try and build relationships even with kids who've behaved in ways that in normal life would see them sacked, ostracised and potentially even prosecuted. And it works a lot of the time. It means I seek out and spend time with kids you'd cross the street to avoid or write off with a few choice adjectives.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that even the most challenged of our students (think witnessing domestic physical and sexual violence from an early age, never having developed impulse control, never having had emotional regulation modelled to them and instead only having seen shouting and screaming like toddlers from the adults in their lives prior to school) demonstrate more capacity for basic empathy and ability to recognise that other people have needs too than some of the parent posters on here.

Those posters will also be the ones banging on about how their child must be in school and manipulatively citing the 'vulnerable' kids whilst not actually giving a damn about those kids or the toll that it takes on teachers to have to take care of those kids, know their circumstances and worse still send them home to environments that we KNOW are not really safe let alone good despite a million safeguarding alerts and reports that we have submitted collectively and sleepless nights knowing we've done everything we can do but the child is still being left in an abusive environment.

They'll then also cynically use the death of one of those children for their Us4Ourselves agenda to show how schools must stay open as if that child would be alive if it wasn't for lockdowns. They'll ignore the fact that child had a school place and should have been in school and teachers reported to the authorities that they weren't and that they were seriously concerned. Not because they care about that child or the thousands like them who we know are in danger but can't get anyone to do anything about other than praising us on an ofsted report for providing an opportunity for them to come to breakfast club and give them a hot chocolate and a slice of toast in the morning but because they're a convenient pawn.

We are apparently lazy, lefty, workshy, shit at our jobs, sunbathing in the garden, gin swilling, overpaid, have too many holidays, hysterical because we don't want to be packed into an unventilated building with a massive unvaccinated population who clearly ARE a massive breeding pool for infections in a pandemic despite gaslighting and no apologies when that gaslighting was proved untrue, lying, doom mongering and disposable blob. Yet they are strangely keen for us to have their children.

I can't imagine why we either can't recruit trainees or end up recruiting absolutely unfit for the job recruits via private goverments mates companies that only give a shit about the commission.

As I say, fortunately we do it for the kids not the public. The public telling us we should lose our holidays to sit in lockdown in January when we're not allowed to go anywhere and then work through summer can gtf. Trust me the kids don't want that either. Not that these people generally give a damn what kids want.

I really have to hope that there are reasonable decent parents and people who are the silent lurking majority on these threads and who do genuinely give a shit about kids and know that it's not the teachers trying to hold things together on a shoe string that deserve their angst. I'm told there are countries where teachers are actually appreciated and held in high esteem.

Sherrytriflestrull · 17/12/2021 09:59

@TheHoneyBadger

Thank god we do it for our students not their parents because the kind of attitudes you see on here towards teachers would definitely not keep the already short number of teachers in role or attract quality candidates to the profession.

Thankfully most parents in real life are so much nicer than the very vocal and entitled minority who fill so much space on mn. I should know, I'm a parent myself and I get to read the emails of and have phonecalls with parents (generally of the most challenging students) on a regular basis and the vast majority are nothing like the vocal ones on here.

Our HT regularly shares with us the emails from parents thanking us for all we've done to keep their kids in school, to accommodate kids with very challenging needs, to support and keep in touch with students who are off due to covid etc.

Our students too for the most part, even most of the children of the more challenging parents, are polite and express gratitude. I get to share a fairly warm and amusing and engaging relationship with the majority of my classes despite having to teach them, administer discipline, introduce and enforce standards and expectations that in some cases they only encounter in school etc. Even after a lesson of nagging and moaning and having to give out a few warnings many will still say thanks Miss, have a nice day Miss. Many of them know that the nagging and moaning and pushing means we actually give a shit. They're also capable of recognising that sometimes we're in there sick and knackered when we should probably be in bed but still turning up for them and giving them 100% of our attention and energy and bothering to nag and moan.

We work on a restorative model. Not always popular with teachers I know and with good reasons sometimes but we're committed to it and for me personally that means going out of my way to try and build relationships even with kids who've behaved in ways that in normal life would see them sacked, ostracised and potentially even prosecuted. And it works a lot of the time. It means I seek out and spend time with kids you'd cross the street to avoid or write off with a few choice adjectives.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that even the most challenged of our students (think witnessing domestic physical and sexual violence from an early age, never having developed impulse control, never having had emotional regulation modelled to them and instead only having seen shouting and screaming like toddlers from the adults in their lives prior to school) demonstrate more capacity for basic empathy and ability to recognise that other people have needs too than some of the parent posters on here.

Those posters will also be the ones banging on about how their child must be in school and manipulatively citing the 'vulnerable' kids whilst not actually giving a damn about those kids or the toll that it takes on teachers to have to take care of those kids, know their circumstances and worse still send them home to environments that we KNOW are not really safe let alone good despite a million safeguarding alerts and reports that we have submitted collectively and sleepless nights knowing we've done everything we can do but the child is still being left in an abusive environment.

They'll then also cynically use the death of one of those children for their Us4Ourselves agenda to show how schools must stay open as if that child would be alive if it wasn't for lockdowns. They'll ignore the fact that child had a school place and should have been in school and teachers reported to the authorities that they weren't and that they were seriously concerned. Not because they care about that child or the thousands like them who we know are in danger but can't get anyone to do anything about other than praising us on an ofsted report for providing an opportunity for them to come to breakfast club and give them a hot chocolate and a slice of toast in the morning but because they're a convenient pawn.

We are apparently lazy, lefty, workshy, shit at our jobs, sunbathing in the garden, gin swilling, overpaid, have too many holidays, hysterical because we don't want to be packed into an unventilated building with a massive unvaccinated population who clearly ARE a massive breeding pool for infections in a pandemic despite gaslighting and no apologies when that gaslighting was proved untrue, lying, doom mongering and disposable blob. Yet they are strangely keen for us to have their children.

I can't imagine why we either can't recruit trainees or end up recruiting absolutely unfit for the job recruits via private goverments mates companies that only give a shit about the commission.

As I say, fortunately we do it for the kids not the public. The public telling us we should lose our holidays to sit in lockdown in January when we're not allowed to go anywhere and then work through summer can gtf. Trust me the kids don't want that either. Not that these people generally give a damn what kids want.

I really have to hope that there are reasonable decent parents and people who are the silent lurking majority on these threads and who do genuinely give a shit about kids and know that it's not the teachers trying to hold things together on a shoe string that deserve their angst. I'm told there are countries where teachers are actually appreciated and held in high esteem.

Wonderful post
Appuskidu · 17/12/2021 10:08

@TheHoneyBadger

Thank god we do it for our students not their parents because the kind of attitudes you see on here towards teachers would definitely not keep the already short number of teachers in role or attract quality candidates to the profession.

Thankfully most parents in real life are so much nicer than the very vocal and entitled minority who fill so much space on mn. I should know, I'm a parent myself and I get to read the emails of and have phonecalls with parents (generally of the most challenging students) on a regular basis and the vast majority are nothing like the vocal ones on here.

Our HT regularly shares with us the emails from parents thanking us for all we've done to keep their kids in school, to accommodate kids with very challenging needs, to support and keep in touch with students who are off due to covid etc.

Our students too for the most part, even most of the children of the more challenging parents, are polite and express gratitude. I get to share a fairly warm and amusing and engaging relationship with the majority of my classes despite having to teach them, administer discipline, introduce and enforce standards and expectations that in some cases they only encounter in school etc. Even after a lesson of nagging and moaning and having to give out a few warnings many will still say thanks Miss, have a nice day Miss. Many of them know that the nagging and moaning and pushing means we actually give a shit. They're also capable of recognising that sometimes we're in there sick and knackered when we should probably be in bed but still turning up for them and giving them 100% of our attention and energy and bothering to nag and moan.

We work on a restorative model. Not always popular with teachers I know and with good reasons sometimes but we're committed to it and for me personally that means going out of my way to try and build relationships even with kids who've behaved in ways that in normal life would see them sacked, ostracised and potentially even prosecuted. And it works a lot of the time. It means I seek out and spend time with kids you'd cross the street to avoid or write off with a few choice adjectives.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that even the most challenged of our students (think witnessing domestic physical and sexual violence from an early age, never having developed impulse control, never having had emotional regulation modelled to them and instead only having seen shouting and screaming like toddlers from the adults in their lives prior to school) demonstrate more capacity for basic empathy and ability to recognise that other people have needs too than some of the parent posters on here.

Those posters will also be the ones banging on about how their child must be in school and manipulatively citing the 'vulnerable' kids whilst not actually giving a damn about those kids or the toll that it takes on teachers to have to take care of those kids, know their circumstances and worse still send them home to environments that we KNOW are not really safe let alone good despite a million safeguarding alerts and reports that we have submitted collectively and sleepless nights knowing we've done everything we can do but the child is still being left in an abusive environment.

They'll then also cynically use the death of one of those children for their Us4Ourselves agenda to show how schools must stay open as if that child would be alive if it wasn't for lockdowns. They'll ignore the fact that child had a school place and should have been in school and teachers reported to the authorities that they weren't and that they were seriously concerned. Not because they care about that child or the thousands like them who we know are in danger but can't get anyone to do anything about other than praising us on an ofsted report for providing an opportunity for them to come to breakfast club and give them a hot chocolate and a slice of toast in the morning but because they're a convenient pawn.

We are apparently lazy, lefty, workshy, shit at our jobs, sunbathing in the garden, gin swilling, overpaid, have too many holidays, hysterical because we don't want to be packed into an unventilated building with a massive unvaccinated population who clearly ARE a massive breeding pool for infections in a pandemic despite gaslighting and no apologies when that gaslighting was proved untrue, lying, doom mongering and disposable blob. Yet they are strangely keen for us to have their children.

I can't imagine why we either can't recruit trainees or end up recruiting absolutely unfit for the job recruits via private goverments mates companies that only give a shit about the commission.

As I say, fortunately we do it for the kids not the public. The public telling us we should lose our holidays to sit in lockdown in January when we're not allowed to go anywhere and then work through summer can gtf. Trust me the kids don't want that either. Not that these people generally give a damn what kids want.

I really have to hope that there are reasonable decent parents and people who are the silent lurking majority on these threads and who do genuinely give a shit about kids and know that it's not the teachers trying to hold things together on a shoe string that deserve their angst. I'm told there are countries where teachers are actually appreciated and held in high esteem.

There any aren’t enough claps in the world for this post!

Well said.

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