If omicron symptoms are so mild

[Mistletoeandwhineing]

To not understand what the panic is about?

Have been watching regular updates from Dr John Campbell, very level headed and knowledgeable. Current evidence seems to be looking very positive. I realise we need to wait a little longer to be sure, but overall it’s looking to be very mild and possibly actually a good thing for immunity. Or am I wrong?
Feel like I’m living in a parallel universe

@BoredZelda

This leaves us maybe only with boosters as a viable strategy since formal lockdowns have unintended side effects anyway.

I’m still waiting to hear someone give me an example of something that is a lock down problem that wouldn’t have been made worse by not locking down.

Do explain how you would get a lockdown through parliament at this point and hoe you would get people to take it seriously and comply with it.

I'm fascinated as to how you'd do this lawfully.

The question of effectiveness and side effects is politically unavoidable. The degree to which people will accept it is based on the level of effectiveness.

Even if the absence of lockdown makes problems worse, the prospect of a lockdown is enough for a significant part of the population to think the benefits aren't sufficient to do it.

I am no longer pro or anti lockdown. I simply don't have strong enough views in either direction at this point. I can see the arguments both ways. No one has convinced me beyond my doubts in either way.

The practical realities of the politics of this are now more my interest as i feel a passenger to it all really.

The argument for a lockdown has to be a bit more compelling than the above at this stage. And thats kind of the intrinsic problem. 'Are we merely delaying the inevitable?' and prolonging the situation rather than making a tangible difference? If you cannot comprehensively convinced the public and parliamentarians on this, the prospect of an early lockdown is irrelevant anyway.

'But its Christmas' isn't a sentiment you will wash away with ease.

Agree with PP that John Campbell is a self-appointed ‘expert’ who presents misleading data and doesn’t have the qualifications to be any sort of authority on Covid, despite his huge audience.
Reports coming out of Denmark suggest quite a high level of hospitalisation for Om so far. 27 out of 2,471 cases hospitalised. Over 1%, which scaled up will present an enormous problem once cases explode.
twitter.com/graemeblake/status/1470222952717328386?s=20

I haven't watched John Campbell's latest video on this, but his recent ones have been full of basic errors and misinformation. He has also (bizzarely despite most people getting off the bandwagon) been caught up in the ivermectin miracle cure hype and has been promoting that with lots of false claims.

He does not have the expertise to be commenting on this and should leave it to people who do. He is a nurse with a PhD in nurse education methods.

No, not a new poster, name change. I don’t generally read the covid threads as I said above, because it heightens my anxiety. Thank you for all the posters discussing it in a fair way and with useful explanations

I never mentioned anything about being a new poster. I would also assume that if one has questions about something to do with Covid, using mumsnet as a single source of information is foolish. This question has been answered many times in reporting, elsewhere on SM and is easily found for anyone who wants to actually try to understand. In fact, it is basic mathematics.

This is a a good point but I haven't seen much reporting on this.

See the last few days, just in one paper:

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/12/number-of-healthy-patients-stranded-in-english-hospital-wards-rises-by-80

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/dec/12/homecare-services-crisis-uk-at-worst-point-yet-say-operators

Do explain how you would get a lockdown through parliament at this point and hoe you would get people to take it seriously and comply with it.

Why do I need to do that? I'm simply asking for someone to clarify the stock response that wants to pretend the prevention is worse than the cure. I couldn't give a shit what the government chooses to do next, lockdown or not, it makes little difference. I'm just asking someone to justify this sentiment and nobody can.

Even if the absence of lockdown makes problems worse, the prospect of a lockdown is enough for a significant part of the population to think the benefits aren't sufficient to do it.

Probably because people keep bleating on about all the supposed problems lockdown has brought, without offering a single shred of evidence that is the case. And because people keep being told "lockdown didn't work". I really don't think there is any appreciation of what the probable outcome of not locking down would have been.

The argument for a lockdown has to be a bit more compelling than the above at this stage. And thats kind of the intrinsic problem. 'Are we merely delaying the inevitable?' and prolonging the situation rather than making a tangible difference? If you cannot comprehensively convinced the public and parliamentarians on this, the prospect of an early lockdown is irrelevant anyway.

Actually the argument doesn't need to be anything of the sort. This is the whole problem. People think this should all be done by committee and the people get to have a say in what happens next. People who do not have all the information and who, I daresay, would struggle to interpret the whole picture. The last 5 years have had people decide that "the experts" are not to be listened to and jimmy down the road had more information and should therefore get a say. And when jimmy keeps saying lockdown causes more problems than it solves, it is wrong to ask for some examples of that?

'But its Christmas' isn't a sentiment you will wash away with ease.

Covid couldn't give a fuck about christmas. Come January when the NHS becomes unavailable for anything other than covid, I wonder how many people will sit back and say "ahh, at least we had a good christmas" when they can't get access to the healthcare they need?

John Campbell is a nurse not a Doctor. However he does talk a lot of sense, particularly about aspiration and adverse reactions to the vaccines.

He also talks a lot of nonsense about ivermectin.

@speakout

It is the fact Omicron is far more infectious, the vaccines are not so effective than they are to Delta. The may not be so severe, but if millions get itt there will be many that become very ill. My DD is an intensive care nurse and her unit is full of patients with Omicron this weekend.

Well thats rubbish because even Javid says there is 10 people in hospital who have tested positive for Omicron and none on ventilators (he had no figures for this)

This!

The fuss is because we still don’t know what the full impact/potential of Omicron might be. As a country we’ve already been hit hard (hardest in Europe) using number of infections and deaths, I think it’s right to exercise caution until we do know.

SA have released some optimistic early data but there are societal factors that don’t translate to our population so there are a number of questions that we still don’t have answers for.

Information, specifically reliable information, takes time. Getting frustrated with the process and demanding decisions are made on scant information is wildly foolhardy given we know exactly what happens if we bet on the wrong horse.

If no one has immunity then it will rip through causing even basic services to struggle or even stop. So it can be mild but also immensely problematic. 10 days isolation for everyone, multiply that by millions and you can see why there is concern.

@Mistletoeandwhineing

I really don't care if you think i"m patronising. I think you're really quite daft for not understanding the basic facts of what has been happening to us all for almost TWO YEARS.

Do we have to constantly use the phrase ‘rip through’? It’s so sensationalist and just snacks of some perverse enjoyment of a very crap situation.

Do we have to constantly use the phrase ‘rip through’? It’s so sensationalist and just snacks of some perverse enjoyment of a very crap situation.

Is there an alternative phrase which conveys the severity that wouldn’t be considered by someone to be sensationalist? Spreading wildly? Uncontrolled spread? Mass infection?

What is generally a good idea when approaching an unknown, jumping straight in without looking or waiting until the risk can be assessed?

It's still too early to tell how virulent Omicron is. All the stuff I've read have said/say more will be known in about a week or 2.

^Johnson confirmed Omicron was “producing hospitalisations” and added: “Sadly at least one patient has been confirmed to have died with Omicron.”

He stressed: “I think the idea that this is somehow a milder version of the virus, I think that’s something we need to set on one side and just recognise the sheer pace at which it accelerates through the population. So the best thing we can do is all get our boosters.”^

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/13/at-least-one-person-in-uk-has-died-with-omicron-says-boris-johnson

Thanks very much again for the comprehensive reply @PrincessNutNuts. Appreciate you taking the time to explain the situation. I think there are so many conflicting reports circulating that it's hard to know what to believe. On one hand the public feel omicron is a bit of a red herring in terms of the Christmas parties etc, especially when SA are saying how mild it is and basically rolling their eyes at the British panic. But if there actually have been excess deaths in SA it does seem rather worrying. It is irksome though the sensational headlines such as the one above with regards to someone dying "with" omicron. Again, I'm not trying to downplay how potentially serious it could get, but that type of reporting doesn't help get the public onside.

I’m in the SW of England and atm, all around me, there are positive cases galore but without exception myself included, they are incredibly mild. Scratchy throat, mild headache, light head cold type symptoms. Generally within 48 hours everyone is feeling 100% better. The speed at which it’s going through the local population suggest to me it is Omicron. Behaviour hasn’t changed but suddenly there’s a sharp uptick in cases in all age groups locally despite vaccine status.

If it is indeed Omicron, it seems so far to be a pussycat.

@BoredZelda

Do we have to constantly use the phrase ‘rip through’? It’s so sensationalist and just snacks of some perverse enjoyment of a very crap situation.

Is there an alternative phrase which conveys the severity that wouldn’t be considered by someone to be sensationalist? Spreading wildly? Uncontrolled spread? Mass infection?

"there's a lot of it about"

Now first confirmed case of death from omicron has been announced. Just wonder about the status of the patient, young/old, vaxxed/unvaxxed, any underlying conditions, etc.

Either way, covid is mild for most. And mild for everyone is different. If huge number of people get ill at the same time, everything collapses, not just hospital.

@rainrainraincamedowndowndown

Now first confirmed case of death from omicron has been announced. Just wonder about the status of the patient, young/old, vaxxed/unvaxxed, any underlying conditions, etc.

Either way, covid is mild for most. And mild for everyone is different. If huge number of people get ill at the same time, everything collapses, not just hospital.

Not from Omicron. WITH Omicron.

There is a very big difference. The media has been very careful in the way they have worded this. I watched Sky news at lunch. They were all saying with omicron including Boris. Then after the reporter then summed it up saying "died from Omicron" only to rephrase a few mins later saying "died with Omicron"

Oh look. Goal Post Shift. Day 1.

Lewis Goodall @lewis_goodall
The PM’s words last night: “Everyone eligible aged 18 and over in England will have the chance to get their booster before the New Year.”

Vicki Young @BBCVickiYoung
Dept of Health sources clarify that the promise on boosters is to “offer” them by end of December not “deliver” them. Confusion stemmed from PM saying last night that eligible adults in England “will have the chance to get their booster before the New Year” #Booster #vaccine

Red Knight @redknighttrader
He also said in the previous sentence that There was a previous ‘offer’ of a jab by the end of January & he was bringing that forward by one month

Vicki Young @BBCVickiYoung
Yes - the statement was contradictory

Lewis Goodall
@lewis_goodall
So it seems the word “chance” is doing the heavy lifting rather than “to get.” Ie you have the opportunity to get it rather than being assured of actually getting it before new year.

But the way it’s presented here leaves ambiguity and is open to viewers to easily misunderstand (this one certainly did). The gravity of a prime ministerial address also adds to that- it’s a dramatic thing so leads you to idea of a dramatic change/acceleration,

That ambiguity could have been avoided completely if for example PM had said: “the chance to book your booster before the new year.”

Regardless of public confusion obviously this has a virological impact as well. This is less ambitious (though idea of boosting everyone before NY would never have happened). People will only just be getting boosted right at the heart of worst period for NHS- January.

NHS communications clear: “The NHS will give every adult the chance to book a Covid-19 booster vaccine by the end of the year in a race to protect the nation against the Omicron variant.”

Ben has more on this

Ben Chu @BenChu_
Is the government planning to actually put booster jabs into the arms of everyone aged over 18 by the end of the year?

Or merely "offer" everyone a chance to get them (which could include booking them for 2022)?...

...PM's statement last night was techically "offer" and he spoke of "chance" for a booster jab...

...which might imply the calculations of 1m jabs a day needed to hit the target are somewhat exaggerated.

Yet this section of the PM's statement is pretty clear that it's about a massive increase in actual jabs...

....the Health Department is saying the end of year target does technically relate to offers rather than actual needles in arms - but they're not pushing back against the 1m a day calculation - or the idea that the number of jabs delivered a day needs to more than double

Lewis Goodall @lewis_goodall
The point about this is that it wasn’t a press conference it was an address. So 1) was tightly scripted and presumably checked and rechecked and checked again so should be less room for ambiguity 2) no possibility of journalist follow up to clarify at broadcast

Oh.My.Fucking.God.