Absolutely ridiculous-what can be done about this?

[Remoanercorona]

Taking to a headteacher friend today and they said they were having a nightmare with unvaccinated staff having to isolate.
One member of staff had had 3 separate isolations on full pay. That’s a month’s work.

Surely if vaccination isn’t mandatory (and I don’t think it should be) and it’s a legal duty to isolate if you are a close contact then the government should be picking up the wage or supply bill?!
So unfair on the school and the other members of staff who are then stretched.

I believe teachers who isolate but aren't ill are working from home and teaching remotely. It would be a bit daft if that wasn't clearly set out in a school's policy this year, no? So if they're teaching over Zoom all day they can't be paid ssp.

If your school has left itself in the position where isolating staff aren't expected to teach remotely all day, and another teacher is required for planning and delivery rather than a cover supervisor or TA to supervise, then they're a bit behind the curve aren't they!

Vaccinated people can still catch it and quite a few vaccinated staff at my school have had to self isolate so its just something we have to accept unfortunately.

But if the vaccinated person catch it and self isolate, that's one off isolation. It's different from unvaccinated person needing isolation every time they are close contact?

[quote mrsnoname]@vastgrandupgrade
I think this might be one of the reasons some people aren’t getting vaccinated

@hotfroth
Me too. Weeks and weeks off work on full pay. Must be awful for them.

Very clever thinking!!! Well done!!! Yes, because it's fun being the talk of the school, potentially jeopardising your job and risk losing your livelihood, but even if none of that happens, you totally risk losing friendships with work colleagues!!

And don't say, "oh, it's all your fault, just get jabbed you selfish so and so!" As I have my reasons for not doing so and it's none of anybody's business on MN.[/quote]
I wasn't talking about you.

@sparklemagicsnow

school staff don't expect parents to keep children at home every time they cough naturally. However, some parents send them in when they have a new, continuous cough and when you ask the child, no they haven't had a flow test recently. If more people just used their common sense (not saying you don't) then there would be less covid in schools causing staff absenteeism but some people aren't reasonable about it

@TheScenicWay

Maybe they should be able to take a daily lft test?

This^

Also, do unvaccinated teachers still have to isolate even if they’ve had the virus?

@mrsnoname thanks for your patronising reply. I do actually work in a school myself so I am fully aware of why people need to isolate and how a school operates! Many staff cannot work in isolation due to the age of the children and the requirement to attend meetings. Also, the reasons for needing to isolate are manifold and often not related to colleagues testing positive.

@echt

Not in the UK, but schools in Victoria have a full vax or not allowed in the building, not allowed to WFH, and have to claim Personal Leave. PL is accumulated over time so you can actually run out of it.

In the new year, some time in the first term, they will be deemed to be not at work by choice and their contract terminated.

There are exemptions but they are very tight indeed.

How awful :(

@Barbie222 depends on the age of the children! Primary, certainly EYFS and KS1 cannot be taught remotely in an effective manner plus all classes, regardless of age, still need an adult supervising them. What a simplistic view of teaching! What about registration, break duties, taking children to lunch, sorting out pastoral issues etc. Have you any idea what teachers do in a typical day? The actual delivery of lesson is only one part of it!

All children need supervision in school and some staff such as Teaching Assistants, are still sometimes required to sit right next to children with special needs. Even when schools closed in lockdown, TAs and cover supervisors still had to come into schools to physically supervise and support children of key workers or vulnerable children or those with special needs

@Barbie222

I believe teachers who isolate but aren't ill are working from home and teaching remotely. It would be a bit daft if that wasn't clearly set out in a school's policy this year, no? So if they're teaching over Zoom all day they can't be paid ssp.

If your school has left itself in the position where isolating staff aren't expected to teach remotely all day, and another teacher is required for planning and delivery rather than a cover supervisor or TA to supervise, then they're a bit behind the curve aren't they!

I think it’s you who is behind the curve if you think that the sum total of a teacher’s day is delivering a lesson. Especially in primary and special settings. A TA’s role is also impossible to replicate virtually.

[quote Twiglets1]@sparklemagicsnow

school staff don't expect parents to keep children at home every time they cough naturally. However, some parents send them in when they have a new, continuous cough and when you ask the child, no they haven't had a flow test recently. If more people just used their common sense (not saying you don't) then there would be less covid in schools causing staff absenteeism but some people aren't reasonable about it[/quote]
I see your point. I suspect these are the same parents who send their child to school before their chicken pox is scabbed over properly or when they've recently vomited but are 'fine'.

Not a new issue unfortunately. I've only got one year experience of primary and even in a pandemic we see people sending clearly ill (not with covid possibly as school send them straight home anyway!) contagious children to school with all manner of bugs and germs.

My SIL is into her second 10 day isolation as an unvaccinated person.

She isn't teaching over Zoom but is doing planning and paperwork.

As a teacher myself, I can honestly say I envy her. The worst day WFH is easier than the easiest day in the classroom. She gets up at 8:15, checks emails, puts the TV on and works (on and off) for 6 hours.

Her colleagues will be arriving at school at 7:30 working until 5:00, have to do extra work to help with her class, then go home and do work in the evenings.

This has created a lot of friction at her school. So much so that she is now planning to have the vaccine before she is hated too much. Thing is she won't be fully vaccinated until the other side of winter and the Omicron spreading that might mean another 2 or 3 periods of self isolation.

She didn't ask for this, but then again neither did her colleagues who are taking up the slack and doing some of her work she is being paid for whilst she is having an easier time at home.

I guess I'm the only one who think the govt creating 2 tier societies depending on your medical history is WRONG ?

Govt is imposing these rules about isolation. Choice about medical procedures is being coerced away. Remember the precedent you enthusiastically embraced here when it's applied in a way you don't support in future.

Personally unless somebody has declined the vaccine for a justifiable medical condition, they should take their chances like the rest of us.

They're not creating a two tier system based on medical history. It's a two tier system based on individual choices, but choices that have the power to impact on others.

The government gave itself emergency powers to enforce legislation. The govt didn't have powers to impose these types of rules as recently as 2 years ago.

2 years ago your vaccination status had no bearing on legal requirements to do almost anything.

Now we think that is normal ... just remember how much you supported the idea the moment it's applied in a way you don't like. You wanted the precedent to exist in law. We're all stuck with it, now.

Two years ago, almost to the day, the world was a very different place. I'm sure you know that.

@Macaroni46 @Remoanercorona of course it isn't the same as in class teaching - no one's saying it is. It's the reason why they can't be paid ssp though. If a teacher can't physically be there, but isn't ill, what choices do you have? You either find a warm body to stand in the class while the teacher who knows them delivers the content, or you find a supply teacher that can plan and deliver. Schools just aren't able to do the latter and haven't been able to all year.

As a teacher myself, I can honestly say I envy her. The worst day WFH is easier than the easiest day in the classroom. She gets up at 8:15, checks emails, puts the TV on and works (on and off) for 6 hours.

Her colleagues will be arriving at school at 7:30 working until 5:00, have to do extra work to help with her class, then go home and do work in the evenings.

Absolutely true - I left teaching in July for a FT WFH position and the busiest, worst day so far was soooooo much easier than ever being in class. Can't believe the moaning I still hear from wfh colleagues. People who've never been in class have absolutely no idea.

@worriedandannoyed

No way should the government foot the bill! They've offered and encouraged a vaccine. The staff member has refused so they should get SSP

Depends on their contract.

They are WFH not sick.

Yeah all kids up to year 11 need supervising. Yet my year 13 dd whose cohort has had the most exam related COVID disruption does not get cover so her cohort has missed so many lessons this year and last. Luckily she is extremely self motivated and is good at working independently but some of her cohort really struggle with this.

@Barbie222 in my school's case the warm bodies (!!) deliver the lessons, or should I say, look after the class but it's so much more than delivering lessons!

@Barbie222 and it is accepted that a EYFS or KS1 teacher can't WFH. Luckily all my colleagues are at least double vaxed so if people are away from school it's because they're genuinely ill. I work for an academy trust and they're very overt about expecting all staff to take up the vaccine offer.