Absolutely ridiculous-what can be done about this?

[Remoanercorona]

Taking to a headteacher friend today and they said they were having a nightmare with unvaccinated staff having to isolate.
One member of staff had had 3 separate isolations on full pay. That’s a month’s work.

Surely if vaccination isn’t mandatory (and I don’t think it should be) and it’s a legal duty to isolate if you are a close contact then the government should be picking up the wage or supply bill?!
So unfair on the school and the other members of staff who are then stretched.

@PeachesPumpkin

Teachers at my school still have to do the planning and teach via zoom. How has she managed to have 3 isolations? You only have to isolate if you are a close contact of omicron and it hasn’t been around long enough to have needed 3 isolations. Are you talking about 3 isolations since the start of the pandemic? I think that would be pretty common for all teachers vaccinated or not. It’s all very well the government saying kids don’t get COVID or spread it but as teachers have been saying from the start (even though everyone denied it last year) they do.

They have to isolate as a contact because they are unvaccinated. It’s doesn’t have to to be Omicron.

Teaching contracts are (generally) very strict over sickness/absence.

If the school follows the Burgundy book then three periods of sickness or absence in a rolling 12 month period will trigger their absence policy. Staff member will find themselves having to sign paperwork saying their absenteeism will improve. They may well find themselves on the road to being put on capability or managed out.

*Unvaccinated people have had to isolate as close contacts to any covid case.

Only those vaccinated were exempt.*
This class I was in had a TA who was in as she was vaccinated and the teacher, who wasn't, was at home for two weeks. The TA had a much harder job to do too as the teacher wasn't there.

@Twiglets1

Vaccinated people can still catch it and quite a few vaccinated staff at my school have had to self isolate so its just something we have to accept unfortunately. It would help everyone if parents didn’t continue to send their children into school with continuous coughs and other Covid symptoms

The problem with this is this year the children have all been massively affected by bugs, much more so then other years.

My (KS1) child has has almost a constant bloody cold since September. She's had six PCR tests since the start of term. All negative (as have we been on multiple PCRs and the twice weekly LFTs DH and I do). She's been coughing for weeks and weeks.

What am I supposed to do? If I kept her home every time she coughed she'd never be at school.

These people are having to isolate 2, 3 or more times because of the vaccinated going to work with symptoms until they finally feel like taking a pcr (there is plenty of evidence of that happening here on MN too). Also, don't forget our crazy government's utterly mindless rule of allowing the vaccinated out in society with close family members at home suffering with covid. The majority of these double-jabbed close contacts work whilst asymptomatic and spread the virus until they themselves start producing symptoms and FINALLY take a pcr. If anyone, blame the government not the unvaccinated who are trying to do their absolute best to keep away from the (self-righteous) double-jabbed at work. Vaccinated school staff, for some strange reason, all assume that everybody around them have had their jabs, therefore won't be affected if reported as close contact, should they come down with covid. In fact, 85% of society thinks the same way.... why?!
Having to self-isolate repeatedly is no fun by any means, it majorly affects your mental health!!!! But, I guess, that is the endgame, isn't it?!

@mrsnoname or they could just get vaccinated and avoid having to SI repeatedly?
I find it incredibly selfish tbh.

@mrsnoname but the unvaccinated are not doing their best to keep away in this scenario are they? They're working in forward facing roles that cannot be done from home fully aware that every time they need to isolate, they get to put their feet up at home whilst on full pay! Meanwhile their (double jabbed) colleagues are run ragged covering their (fully paid) absence.

@vastgrandupgrade

I think this might be one of the reasons some people aren’t getting vaccinated

Me too. Weeks and weeks off work on full pay. Must be awful for them.

I’m more shocked that a headteacher is discussing isolating staff with a parent. How unprofessional.

@Remoanercorona "I find it incredibly selfish tbh."

It's your prerogative.

Also, don't forget our crazy government's utterly mindless rule of allowing the vaccinated out in society with close family members at home suffering with covid

Absolutely.

I can't really see how it's unprofessional to discuss this. It's not like the whole community won't be aware that there are unvaccinated staff taking multiple sets of time off. You can't really hide it.

@Macaroni46
mostly, teachers don't self-isolate for being a contact of a person under the age of 18 yrs and 6 mths regardless of their vaccine status, as they're not named as close contact when NHS T&T takes the infected person's details. Therefore, the majority of the cases of unvaccinated teachers being forced into self-isolation are a result of other colleagues testing positive. Teachers don't have to work in close contact with each other, they spend the majority of their days with the kids they teach. The unvaccinated can even avoid sharing an office, it often makes more sense for them to stay in the classroom during break times, or if on duty, it's usually easy to keep their distance.

@BoundariesAlready

I don't know what the answer is but it seems utterly awful if that member of staff has no medical reason to avoid getting vaccinated, for them to continue to choose not to.

Anyone for whom the vaccines pose a greater risk than the virus has a medical reason to refuse them IMO.

This would include anyone who has recovered from covid for starters. Also anyone not overweight under 40. Maybe 50.

@nancy75

If they won’t have the vaccine I don’t think anyone should foot the bill, they shouldn’t be paid. They have to isolate due to a situation of their own making - they could avoid it by doing what most of us have done & getting vaccinated

It's not if their making. They didn't start the pandemic and they didn't create the insane rules.

You are letting them stoke division and hate. Look at yourself hard. It's not pretty to see these fascist mindsets forming.

@vastgrandupgrade
I think this might be one of the reasons some people aren’t getting vaccinated

@hotfroth
Me too. Weeks and weeks off work on full pay. Must be awful for them.

Very clever thinking!!! Well done!!! Yes, because it's fun being the talk of the school, potentially jeopardising your job and risk losing your livelihood, but even if none of that happens, you totally risk losing friendships with work colleagues!!

And don't say, "oh, it's all your fault, just get jabbed you selfish so and so!" As I have my reasons for not doing so and it's none of anybody's business on MN.

Not in the UK, but schools in Victoria have a full vax or not allowed in the building, not allowed to WFH, and have to claim Personal Leave. PL is accumulated over time so you can actually run out of it.

In the new year, some time in the first term, they will be deemed to be not at work by choice and their contract terminated.

There are exemptions but they are very tight indeed.

@CarrieBlue

I’m more shocked that a headteacher is discussing isolating staff with a parent. How unprofessional.

I’m not a parent, well I am but not at this headteacher’s school. They are my friend. No names were named (and I wouldn’t have known them if they were).

Also I didn’t get the impression that these isolations were as a result of contacts at the school as they said that they had largely escaped any cases so far and that the isolating staff were the biggest issue they were facing.

I know schools are hotbeds of infection but so are concerts, weddings, parties etc.

They may well find themselves on the road to being put on capability or managed out.

God, if this actually happened because of an individual complying with the law during a global pandemic then I can't imagine that employment tribunal going well for the school.

@TheScenicWay

Maybe they should be able to take a daily lft test?

This would be a reasonable solution and I don’t think it would be any more risky (probably much less risky) than household contacts not having to isolate.

@Remoanercorona apologies for not reading more carefully

Also I didn’t get the impression that these isolations were as a result of contacts at the school

Why would that make a difference? We’re not (yet) banning the unvaccinated from public spaces.

I actually agree
I have a colleague in a similar situation, although in her case was off for a long time because of being unwell with covid, after she didn’t get the vaccine due to being anxious about it.
The whole vaccine thing is very divisive but I do find myself feeling resentful that she (a) put us at increased risk (i didn’t know she was unvaccinated before) and (b) was more unwell and needed more time off because of her own choice not to get it

@Twiglets1

Yes but that’s hopefully just once. Unvaccinated could be every single day

“This would be a reasonable solution and I don’t think it would be any more risky (probably much less risky) than household contacts not having to isolate”

Of course daily pcr tests is a reasonable solution but no, let’s just punish the unwashed unvaccinated ones, shall we?
Creating divisions in society is not going to help us to progress.

@vastgrandupgrade

I think this might be one of the reasons some people aren’t getting vaccinated

Yes, same as when people had that covid t&t app so they could have paid time off. Couple of weeks off on full pay while others run round covering