To ask you to please not rely on lft's if you have symptoms.

[Coronachristmas21]

About 10 days ago Dp went on a work training course with someone he wouldn't normally have much contact at all with (work in the same place but not close by). His work is pretty social distanced but the training day was not. He was sat near to the guy all day on training course for one day. The guy was sniffing, sneezing and coughing all the way through but he said he had got a negative lft so he was 'fine' in his words.

Very next morning less than 12 hours after last contact, the guy tested positive on a lft and comfirmed by pcr. Just a few days later Dp tested positive and isolating until later in the week. Thankfully not overly unwell and pretty much over it.

Now our autistic son has tested positive. Thankfully mild symptoms but he's had an hour long meltdown because in his words 'he has the virus' and 'Christmas will be rubbish'

Probably get through me and Dd as well.

I know we could have caught anywhere but we try minimise the risk. I'm not working currently and don't really go very far and get most things delivered, dc are primary age and there has been next to no cases in their small village school! Dp's work is usually distanced. We don't go to crowded places, wears masks etc. We've avoided it for 21 months.

I am pretty pissed at the situation, but I know there's not much j can do about it. But the point of my post is to please don't rely on lft's this Christmas when you have symptoms. They can work, Dp had a strong instant positive when asymptomatic but sometimes don't work when you are actually ill?! 🤷‍♀️

To add, please don't think it's covid if it's like a cold. Both Dp's and DS's symptoms are cold like. Sneezy, runny nose etc!

To add be careful when thinking about sending your dc to school. Ds could have gone school all week. He had two negative pcrs on Monday and Wednesday (despite actually having symptoms on Wednesday) re-tested him yesterday which was positive, it can change so quickly.

Just want to rant. I've had the most rubbish year or so with bereavement and other things as well as covid and I feel like I just want to curl up and cry.

I am grateful that neither Dp or Ds is particularly ill.

I also care for my grandma but haven't been in because of this. Even though I'm still negative, I don't wanna risk anything 😪

I had 4 positive lateral flows, 2 unreadable pcrs and 2 negative pcrs.

I've done the sensible thing and isolated. I have lost all faith in testing though.

The problem is that LFTs are supposed to only part of the strategy. Ideally everyone would also be mask wearing, social distancing, ventilating rooms etc also, but they're not.

If there is one thing I'd hoped this pandemic would change it would be the idea that it's fine to just go into work / school when visibly highly contagious with an illness and pass it on to everyone else and not bother wearing a mask or take the tiniest step to prevent others catching it. Especially in cases where work can be done from home.

But apparently it is a vain hope.

DDs school sent out an email saying to dose up kids with paracetamol and send them in because taking time off for illness is bad for attendance (which is ridiculous because it's bad for everyone else's attendance if you're spreading disease around).

OP I agree, although I had what I thought was a cold on Monday, sneezing and sore throat and I took an LFT but was negative but I booked a PCR anyway because I developed a cough - negative. Luckily I was too ill to leave the house but a few days later I then got a positive LFT and a positive PCR.

The symptom list has never been updated its completely reckless to leave it how it was nearly two years ago

Agree, sneezing isn’t down as a symptom but that’s how mine started. Sneezing and a constant runny nose.

Why are we still labouring under the misapprehension that if we, and others around us, continue to behave in a certain way that we can somehow be magically protected from ever catching covid.
It is almost impossible to actually KNOW for certain where you caught it from.
If your child goes to school then it’s just as possible that they caught it there.
For the most part people are just doing their best to do the right thing but also get on with their lives.
Trouble is we’re all just furious at a microscopic organism that doesn’t even know we exist.

@Jacaranda75

The GP on This Morning said that LFT’s don’t work if you have symptoms. Not sure why?

That’s incorrect. I had mild to no symptoms on Monday, didn’t pick up. Obvious symptoms a few days later, positive LFT and then confirmed with a second PCR. Same for my DP. The first LFT (and first PCR) didn’t pick up on the mild symptoms.

It has been common knowledge for months now that LFT not accurate after symptoms start …the government are being very irresponsible with the advice !

Could you link to this common knowledge please. I'm a scientist (microbiologist originally, so I'm fascinated).

@Cookerhood

Could you link to this common knowledge please. I'm a scientist (microbiologist originally, so I'm fascinated).

I’m interested too, especially as my COVID wasn’t picked up UNTIL my symptoms were developed enough to detect.

It’s strange with lateral flows I did four with no symptoms all negative but did a pcr as my son had Covid cane back positive. My son with symptoms had a very strong positive on lateral flow. Hope your ds and dp feel better soon.

To any of you who contribute to the Zoe app (the imperial college one), if you log in relatively frequently your condition and if you register cold symptoms, they send you an invitation to do a PCR…you can then if full honestly book it in the govt website and say that “you’ve been referred by a research study such as Zoe”. I also can’t believe that the page of the Pcr booking hasn’t been updated with other symptoms, when it’s been known for months that double jabbed people’s symptoms are closer to a cold than the standard covid…

OP I am totally with you, I’m a GP and spend a good proportion of my day trying to convince people to get a PCR at all and I just know they are not isolating with their symptoms pending PCR when much of the time they don’t even bother with getting a PCR. Even though that’s still official advice there are no consequences for people doing as they please and there are a lot of people that just do not care. So I do feel we are missing a vital part of getting things under control to a reasonable level which is simply to test and isolate if symptomatic!! It frustrates me because I do honestly think if everyone just followed the rules on this alone if absolutely nothing else, it would make a huge difference to containing things to a level where everyone could enjoy life more, including the people who insist we are all overreacting and should just get back to normal. I’d feel a lot happier going out and about if the numbers ever got down to a more reasonable level.

whatever happened to not wanting to spread your cold around? Before Covid didn't it used to be polite not to go into work if you were infectious?

@Wheresmywoolyjumpers

whatever happened to not wanting to spread your cold around? Before Covid didn't it used to be polite not to go into work if you were infectious?

It was frowned upon if you didn’t go into my work if you only had a cold, it was really looked down upon, the attitude really pissed me off because colds make me feel really ill, it’s not just a sniffle for some people.

@AmberLynn1536 - yes I have heard that attitude too, but also worked plenty of places where the feeling was overwhelmingly not to be around others if you were sick. You would think that we would be taking this stuff more seriously now.

@Wheresmywoolyjumpers

whatever happened to not wanting to spread your cold around? Before Covid didn't it used to be polite not to go into work if you were infectious?

My manager would have laughed in my face if I tried to take a day off with the cold.

I think the problem with lfts is that they’re not terribly sensitive so if people don’t do the swabs well/enough then they’re negative. It’s a shame there’s nothing quick and reliable, but then again, too many asymptomatic wandering around anyway.

How does the virus shed if not by coughs/sneezes?

I've had 3 colds this year, none have been covid despite pcrs and lfts. Sometimes a cold is just a cold

For most people (and work places) life cannot just stop every time someone has a minor cold.
These diseases are part of the fabric of life. They cannot be avoided.

[quote Wheresmywoolyjumpers]@AmberLynn1536 - yes I have heard that attitude too, but also worked plenty of places where the feeling was overwhelmingly not to be around others if you were sick. You would think that we would be taking this stuff more seriously now.[/quote]
Colds are absolutely not taken seriously in hospitality. I know a hairdresser as well who was complaining that one of her staff had called in sick. She said she'd rather she would have showed up sick and been sent home

I find it pretty poor too. But, from their perspective, they can't make money if they can't trade properly. They can't trade properly if they don't have staff. They have missed out on a chunk of trade already this year. Also, people coming out for meals and haircuts want their meals out and haircuts. Some people would kick off if they got their appointment cancelled due to staff sickness or got told they couldn't have their booking at a restaurant last minute. A lot of staff in both industries tend to be young and fit, so are less likely to be off in bed with it. From a covid perspective it's shit of them. But I can understand it.

If colds (not coughs) are now a symptom which must be tested for every time, that needs to be put into the guidance and employers told they have to allow employees paid time off to do it. But honestly, that will lead to more restaurant and pub closures. The industry is already a bit fucked. So maybe government needs to finance it temporarily. Would people be happy for this to be funded by their taxes? When everything else (like schools, social services and the NHS) are already chronically underfunded? I would. I'm very left leaning though. Would your average Tory voter be happy with it? They are still in charge and they will want to appeal to their own voters.

Anyway, it's complex is my point. Honestly, if you are likely to get seriously ill because people around you have colds (and I accept that may be the case), I wouldn't go out to restaurants at the moment. I can guarantee you that they won't be sending staff home with minor colds and most staff will not be asked to wear masks. Even if I started taking the hit and PCR testing every time I got a cold, the chances are there will be many other staff continuing to work and also pretty peeved that I'm (as they would perceive it) taking unnecessary time off and leaving them to pick up the slack while customers got very irate at the "downright jolly unacceptable service harrumph, where's my nice dinner out"? Honestly, there are many customers who care a lot more about their meal out than they do covid safety who would get irate. I'd also lose my wages, so could end up queuing at foodbanks over Christmas while everyone else has their turkey. As I've said, but will reiterate, I get a cold per month at least and no, PCR tests do not come back within 15 hours here . The quickest I've had I think was something like 30 hours and that was only once. Usually it's more like 48 and yes, we've had them pretty recently. So it isn't "pretty quick these days" everywhere. Chances are I'd lose 3 days of work every time I took one. That is a sizeable chunk.

Excuse the ramble. It's a strange industry and a complicated issue is the short version.

@Wheresmywoolyjumpers

whatever happened to not wanting to spread your cold around? Before Covid didn't it used to be polite not to go into work if you were infectious?

If I stayed at home every time I had a cold I would be sacked. Not allowed to work from home and very strict sickness policy.

@Cookerhood

Could you link to this common knowledge please. I'm a scientist (microbiologist originally, so I'm fascinated).

you are right...the "common knowledge" has been the simple statement that LFT doesn't work or is less accurate once there are symptoms....as I mentioned earlier in the thread my understanding from a bioscience friend of mine is that too high a viral load denaturises the enzyme used in the test. Does this made any sense to you? Perhaps as a professional you may be better at finding the research on this?

Yes, I've tried very hard & can't find anything. Scientifically it doesn't make sense.

Well, the problem we have in the primary school I work in is that parents have been using lfts on their children when they have cold symptoms (even though lft testing on primary age children is not required) and, when they come back positive, keeping their children off and doing pcrs which come back negative, so sending their kids back into school, then getting positive lfts again, so retesting with pcr and getting positive pcrs the 2nd time (ie only after their children have been back in school again, spreading covid about). Unsurprisingly, the result has been a growing number of school-acquired cases in the affected classes. So imvho, being too negative about lft testing when you have what might just be a cold would not be helpful when pcr tests themselves are also apparently pretty bloody unreliable.

@Walkaround
Agree entirely
In our school we now have an outbreak which the school gossip whatsapp now attributes to the fact that 2-3 weeks ago a batch of kids in one class all got positive LFTs but then negative PCRs. LFTs are far from perfect but we can say the same about PCRs.
Both are useful tools.

I agree, MIL has kicked off I've said I'm not visiting them this weekend with DD. Apparently FILS chest infection and her bad cold aren't a good enough reason- they've done LFTs!! 🙄