What IS the fuss about omicron?

[GingerHouse]

In all seriousness, data shows that not a single person has died from omicron and that’s in countries that have low vaccine uptake too.

The virus is going to mutate all the time and as things are showing this variant is very contagious and the vaccine doesn’t work as well against it, but it’s mild to almost everybody.

I feel like this is mass panic and for what reason?! I understand wearing a mask where applicable to help reduce the spread but I just don’t get it! Is this going to happen every winter forevermore?

[quote GingerHouse]@rrhuth I’ll think you’ll find many people are questioning it, especially due to last year and all the ‘scientific evidence’ the government held in their hands and still partied and did everything the ‘scientific advice’ told us not to. I’m not at all uniformed for asking a question and I can bet my bloody life on it there’s many others here asking the same.[/quote]
Well that is an entirely different issue.

The government behaviour with regards to illegal gatherings/parties does not change the science - in Nov/Dec 2020 we had high covid hospitalisatons and deaths, clearly we needed to prevent more people catching it and ending up in hospital.

The government behaviour was disgusting, clearly.

But if the government behaviour is making you doubt science, that is an irrational response (albeit understandable emotionally).

@rrhuth we all initially locked down, we all put our Christmases on hold, we all homeschooled our children, until there was a vaccine and the scientists unstersood how the virus works. Why on earth should the healthcare system STILL be overwhelmed?

@rrhuth I think you’ll find I never doubted the science; but you blindly went in on that stance. The actual question in hand is WHY all the panic. Given everything that we know.

I thought you said you understood?

We’ve had 2 years as a country to deal with the fact that the virus will mutate and cause hospitalisations. Surely after 2 years we should have found a way to accommodate this instead of restricting people?

Well again, this is different question. You change tack a lot!

To deal with a few points this raises:

• 2 years is an arbitrary timescale, and actually quite short
• covid spreads when people socialise
• we have very few restrictions currently, are you scared about what is coming next?
• what does 'accommodate it' mean to you? Are you saying you are happy to have no healthcare system whilst it runs through the population?

How are you proposing to deal with the fact that both vaccines and natural immunity offer lower protection to this variant?

If variants just mutate, as you said upthread, why can you not accept that covid HAS just mutated and we are where we are?

I am as pissed off as anyone (if there is a siginifcant tightening of restrictions I have some life things that will be very badly impacted) but it is what it is.This variant cold potentially overwhelm the healthcare system. Sadly we can not change reality to suit people's wishes.

If we had a variant that was doubling every ten days, we would have so much more time than with one that is doubling every three days. Maths is annoying like that.

@milkyaqua

I thought you said you understood?

I understand why this particular variant is is a VOC, but no I don’t understand the restrictions given that we’re a mostly vaccinated country and for most is like a mild cold.

[quote GingerHouse]@rrhuth we all initially locked down, we all put our Christmases on hold, we all homeschooled our children, until there was a vaccine and the scientists unstersood how the virus works. Why on earth should the healthcare system STILL be overwhelmed?[/quote]
I agree with the comment above - I thought you said you understood?!?

Why on earth should the healthcare system STILL be overwhelmed? Have you heard about the Omicron variant? It is a new variant that spreads very quickly. There is lots of information about it online, whch explains very clearly why this variant is more of a risk to healthcare than previous variants.

People tell me viruses mutate. Presumably this is what has happened here?

The government should never have promised it could be ended in one fell swoop. That was a promise they could not make.

understand why this particular variant is is a VOC, but no I don’t understand the restrictions given that we’re a mostly vaccinated country and for most is like a mild cold.

I'd guess because of those that don't fit in the most category . That will still be a big number.

I understand why this particular variant is is a VOC, but no I don’t understand the restrictions given that we’re a mostly vaccinated country and for most is like a mild cold.

Oh, we have returned to the uninformed persona again. All of this has been answered previously. Both on here and extensively in the media, and in the government appraisals etc.

If you understand why it is a VOC, why do you not understand the implications of that? If it wasn't a threat, it wouldn't be a VOC .

"I understand why this particular variant is is a VOC, but no I don’t understand the restrictions given that we’re a mostly vaccinated country and for most is like a mild cold."

FFS just look at this morning headlines and you will see why the vaccine escape for Omicron is very concerning - AZ 0% and Pfizer/Moderna 30% effective after 2 doses.
Get the booster people.

And for what feels like the hundredth time there is no evidence yet for it being mild and it is not a cold. Still research ongoing to look at the multi-organ impact of Covid. So many patients of Covid have been left with cardiac and other long term health problems.

We put all our eggs in the AZ basket. The older and vulnerable, it appears those vaccines now offer 0 protection. That’s the issue. No amount if declaring it’s over all day on MN will change that. For the first time ever, I actually feel for this Govt. Most of the non compliance is their own doing…but if we do end up with overrun hospitals again and they have to make difficult choices, that’s kind of what a pandemic forces.

@rrhuth

We’ve had 2 years as a country to deal with the fact that the virus will mutate and cause hospitalisations. Surely after 2 years we should have found a way to accommodate this instead of restricting people?

Well again, this is different question. You change tack a lot!

To deal with a few points this raises:

• 2 years is an arbitrary timescale, and actually quite short
• covid spreads when people socialise
• we have very few restrictions currently, are you scared about what is coming next?
• what does 'accommodate it' mean to you? Are you saying you are happy to have no healthcare system whilst it runs through the population?

How are you proposing to deal with the fact that both vaccines and natural immunity offer lower protection to this variant?

If variants just mutate, as you said upthread, why can you not accept that covid HAS just mutated and we are where we are?

I am as pissed off as anyone (if there is a siginifcant tightening of restrictions I have some life things that will be very badly impacted) but it is what it is.This variant cold potentially overwhelm the healthcare system. Sadly we can not change reality to suit people's wishes.

If we had a variant that was doubling every ten days, we would have so much more time than with one that is doubling every three days. Maths is annoying like that.

Point 1 - it’s quite short yes but given that we have the vaccine which is essentially the ‘cure’ the time in which scientists research this virus and predict how it’s going to mutate this winter with everything open and no masks, and travel restrictions all but gone, we should have been prepared for this?

Point 2 we have enough restrictions in place right now that I feel like I’m restricted and so will many other people. We went from no restrictions here to passports over night.

Point 3 accommodate it by putting more resources into NHS, why are we all so fearful of our healthcare system being overwhelmed?

And yes we should just admit it’s mutated.

@ChequerBoard

"I understand why this particular variant is is a VOC, but no I don’t understand the restrictions given that we’re a mostly vaccinated country and for most is like a mild cold."

FFS just look at this morning headlines and you will see why the vaccine escape for Omicron is very concerning - AZ 0% and Pfizer/Moderna 30% effective after 2 doses.
Get the booster people.

And for what feels like the hundredth time there is no evidence yet for it being mild and it is not a cold. Still research ongoing to look at the multi-organ impact of Covid. So many patients of Covid have been left with cardiac and other long term health problems.

I see this but what are we meant to do? Constant round of vaccines forever?

@Itisasecret

We put all our eggs in the AZ basket. The older and vulnerable, it appears those vaccines now offer 0 protection. That’s the issue. No amount if declaring it’s over all day on MN will change that. For the first time ever, I actually feel for this Govt. Most of the non compliance is their own doing…but if we do end up with overrun hospitals again and they have to make difficult choices, that’s kind of what a pandemic forces.

Right, okay. But the Younger and less vulnerable are now under more restrictions because of this? Also don’t feel for govt. at all.

@GingerHouse You are sounding very uninformed again! You are asking questions that you either do know the answers to or really should - especially as most have been answered above.

Point 1 - it’s quite short yes but given that we have the vaccine which is essentially the ‘cure’ the time in which scientists research this virus and predict how it’s going to mutate this winter with everything open and no masks, and travel restrictions all but gone, we should have been prepared for this? No one ever said the vaccine was a 'cure' - it is a vaccine. It is a virus, we did not know how it would mutate. It is bloody amazing how much we do know, tbh.

Point 2 we have enough restrictions in place right now that I feel like I’m restricted and so will many other people. We went from no restrictions here to passports over night. Well yes, because it has a doubling time of 2.5-3 days, so if you take your time it will be too late. I thought you said you understood why it was a VOC?

Point 3 accommodate it by putting more resources into NHS, why are we all so fearful of our healthcare system being overwhelmed? Again, I thought you said you understood? We are fearful of our healthcare being overwhelmed beacuse there is a new variant (called Omicron) that is much more transmissible and appears to evade vaccines.

And yes we should just admit it’s mutated. Well yes, we are - which is why we need to review the approach.

You really do go round and round the same points, and yet never seem to understand any more

I see this but what are we meant to do? Constant round of vaccines forever?

well I guess you can choose, a booster or reduced immunity.

WTF do you want people to say? It is a virus, it mutates.

“I don't think you can explain a) why Omicron risks overwhelming the NHS by January or b) which base assumption Ferguson/SAGE has got wrong, with any convincing scientific basis. And you know it.”

Perhaps their history of ‘getting it wrong’ throughout the pandemic? their predictions are public - we’ve been well below their best case scenarios despite all their dire warnings back in the summer.

I will be very happy to be below their best case scenario for Omicron!

@rrhuth
No one ever said the vaccine was a 'cure' - it is a vaccine. It is a virus, we did not know how it would mutate. It is bloody amazing how much we do know, tbh I didn’t say it was a cure but it was a cure lifting restrictions and enabling the vulnerable to live life.

It was always going to be short lived but it bought everyone enough time to be able to combat the inevitable variants this winter?! Surely!!!

OP, you ask a good question and here is the only answer you will ever need. Follow the money. twitter.com/Kukicat7/status/1468701681785446407
"The eight top Pfizer and Moderna shareholders made over $10 billion last week when their stock holdings skyrocketed after the discovery of the new Omicron variant."

The young still need a hospital bed if they’re in a car accident. It’s really not that difficult to see the issue.

@rrhuth

I see this but what are we meant to do? Constant round of vaccines forever?

well I guess you can choose, a booster or reduced immunity.

WTF do you want people to say? It is a virus, it mutates.

This.

Its easy to forget that out standard vaccine programme contains 3 doses for babies across a year or so and then teenage top ups of some of those and the flu vaccine is an annual one but only certain groups get it. obviously the whole population wasnt born at once so its a rolling steady programme. The scale of suddenly vaccinating everyone is huge. It takes so many nhs staff who would be doing other things.

[quote Beadebaser]@bigvig if you don’t like Ferguson/Sage perhaps you should look globally to see what other scientists are saying? There is a consensus of opinion.

Who do you want to trust then?[/quote]
The WHO and the scientist who originally discovered in SA, Dr Angelique Coetzee, among others, have said that cases are predominantly mild. Reports have shown fewer cases in hospital, fewer hospitalised people needing oxygen and fewer cases needing critical care. The SA doctor who originally discovered the variant and one of the scientists involved in genomic sequencing, Dr. Sikhulile Moyo, a virologist at the Botswana Harvard AIDS Institute Partnership, have both spoken out about the over reaction and injustice of the travel bans that were put in place - the WHO also said that the virus is everywhere now and that travel bans make little sense and are damaging countries unnecessarily and yet we still have them in place. So what ‘consensus of opinion’?

@rrhuth

I will be very happy to be below their best case scenario for Omicron!

Well given their track record we most likely will be!