More stringent measures next week?

[AchillesLastStand]

From the Guardian just now:

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/10/stringent-uk-covid-measures-needed-within-a-week-leak-reveals

@shinynewapple21

There was a link on BBC yesterday where you could put in your postcode and it gave stats around waiting times for ambulances, in A&E, waiting for a bed etc as comparison between your local hospital and nationally . What I took from that was how very different the stats were between my local hospital health trust and a neighbouring one .

Do you have a link?

Silkiechickens That is awful.
My sister suspected cancer last year. Delayed diagnosis by 6 months due to covid but once diagnosed the Consultant has been marvellous he had her in within a week started on chemo. She was very ill with first treatment and stayed three weeks instead of over night. Has completed first round of treatment and it is now working. She was in Aberdeen hospital. She said they have been fantastic.

Any chance you could move?

You must be so worried. You shouldn’t have to be fighting for treatment.I will keep you in my prayers and hope you are treated soon.

@FestiveMelts

Genuine question - why does the R rate need to stay below 1 for a less deadly variant?

Because thousands of people getting it will overwhelm the NHS totally, most hospitals are over full already.

Thanks very much Red In Cambridgeshire atm but very happy to go to any hospital in the UK if can get seen quicker but no idea of waits at other hospitals and whether results can be transferred. Have left a message at GPs but my GP only works Wed to Friday so they won't respond until then. I have a friend who is a hospital consultant married to another one so asking them if they know but neither is cancer. There seems to be a 10 day delay on getting 2nd ct results but we already have one CT and a CT from 2018 I got hold of so they can use those for adrenal mass and that is within a benign growth rate so its the breast cancer which is in skin already and huge need treatment for, its surgery first. I may just have to pay to go private, think its £20k or so for that part but you really should not have to and I cannot even get a doctors appointment there. Just have to plead for everything.

I saw online that Wales and Scotland have shorter target times though its what the reality is rather than the target. What maybe worth doing is paying £250 or so for a private consultation and see what they recommend, its only way I can discuss things with a doctor.

@Silkieschickens

Would not be amazed. I have been diagnosed with stage 3 or stage 4 breast cancer at start of November and its so busy and they wont even let me book in to see the doctor there, and said I have to wait 10 days more then have a video from home with nurse, then at some point after that will see a doctor but they cant say when then after that 6 week waiting list for treatment to start, which is putting my life at risk and I have 2 kids who need me. When I said this just told there are big delays and if I need mental health support contact MacMillan. Looks like will have to spend 100k going private but wont be needing my pension with these delays, took 4 months before gp referred. Complaining but just get messages back delays on complaints.

I am so sorry to hear this.

It's totally unacceptable.

I really hope you can get the treatment you need.

@TheNamelessGirl

www.bbc.co.uk/nhstracker

Actually target does appear to be same in England, hospital said it was 18 weeks but its 62 days and no they will not meet that possibly by one to two months. Its really hard as well as have to avoid covid or 7 week postpontment so having to isolate already as secondary aged kids and its rife at both schools. Found hospital stats and only 62% are treated for breast cancer in that time.

@Silkieschickens my heart is breaking for you. You shouldn't have to fight that hard.

@Silkieschickens

Actually target does appear to be same in England, hospital said it was 18 weeks but its 62 days and no they will not meet that possibly by one to two months. Its really hard as well as have to avoid covid or 7 week postpontment so having to isolate already as secondary aged kids and its rife at both schools. Found hospital stats and only 62% are treated for breast cancer in that time.

18 weeks is the standard target referral to treatment time for non-urgent cases. If you are on a cancer pathway then target is either a 2 or 3 week wait depending on the specific pathway.

If you are being told the target wait is 18 weeks then you are not being classed as an urgent/cancer pathway patient. Go back to your GP and check what the urgency of referral they have submitted.

18 weeks is moot anyway, nowhere is reaching these targets right now.

Its definitely a cancer pathway, referral said cancer and biopsies confirmed cancer start of November.

A reminder that NOBODY has died of this variant although by now we would have seen deaths starting to creep up if this variant was really dangerous and that people are reporting mild symptoms. So no, total over-reaction...

@Silkieschickens I am so sorry. This should not be happening. Can you change GP -I know I can’t as I’m in the catchment for one of my but I think you need more support and part time GP will not help sorting the paperwork etc
My GP does a lot of poking of the hospital behind the scenes for me as I have a chronic condition. I am under the largest hospital in Cambs and it’s not been great for me. A change of medication should take no more than 4 weeks for me - looking at 3 months currently. Apparently most of the department is off on long term sick. It’s not oncology but didn’t inspire me with confidence.
When I had to deal with oncology over the summer, they were much more on the ball.
I truly hope you get seen soon

A and E in winter is always horrendous. I left A and E 5 years ago after working in it for 16 years. There was always ambulances queuing out the doors, delays to handovers by crews, 12-20 hour waits for beds. This is not new, yes the previous strains of COVID made it worse but right now it’s not just COVID causing this.
It’s a shame they didn’t pay attention 5-6 years ago to crisis in hospitals with lack of beds and staffing.
Omnicrom is spreading and isn’t causing serious problems for those that are vaccinated.
It’s very annoying that, yet again, we are going to be locked down because people don’t get a vaccine. 1000’s have died from COVID, 1000’s have long term side effects from COVID compared to those given a vaccine. I find it bizarre that people won’t have it.

@Silkieschickens

Its definitely a cancer pathway, referral said cancer and biopsies confirmed cancer start of November.

Here's the guidance re cancer pathway wait times. Try quoting these stats if someone says '18 weeks'.

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/09/national-cancer-waiting-times-monitoring-dataset-guidance-v11-sep2020.pdf

@ElectraBlue

A reminder that NOBODY has died of this variant although by now we would have seen deaths starting to creep up if this variant was really dangerous and that people are reporting mild symptoms. So no, total over-reaction...

And yet actual scientists are very worried...

Presumably people have died of it, as South Africa has daily deaths and it’s most of the cases over there now.

I don’t think we can say it’s not a problem, clearly it is potentially a big problem. I still don’t think we should respond to every potential big covid problem by shutting down huge parts of peoples lives and livelihoods again. Or what’s going to stop is going the same next year, when there’s another new strain? And the year after that, and the year after that?

We can’t prevent all covid infections; all we could ever do, sort of, was try to delay most of them until we’d rolled out the vaccines. We have done that now. We can’t stay in an endless cycle of restrictions to humour the delusions of people who think covid would go away forever if only we were good enough.

@GoldenOmber

Presumably people have died of it, as South Africa has daily deaths and it’s most of the cases over there now.

I don’t think we can say it’s not a problem, clearly it is potentially a big problem. I still don’t think we should respond to every potential big covid problem by shutting down huge parts of peoples lives and livelihoods again. Or what’s going to stop is going the same next year, when there’s another new strain? And the year after that, and the year after that?

We can’t prevent all covid infections; all we could ever do, sort of, was try to delay most of them until we’d rolled out the vaccines. We have done that now. We can’t stay in an endless cycle of restrictions to humour the delusions of people who think covid would go away forever if only we were good enough.

But the vaccines aren't effective for Omicron, check the papers this morning.

2 doses AZ 0%
2 doses Pfizer/Moderna 30%

With a booster 70-75%

Vaccines are still very protective against severe disease from omicron. You might still get it, but much more mildly. Same with previous infections. Which is probably why it’s not causing as much damage in South Africa as previous waves.

@GoldenOmber

Vaccines are still very protective against severe disease from omicron. You might still get it, but much more mildly. Same with previous infections. Which is probably why it’s not causing as much damage in South Africa as previous waves.

No that’s not what is being said. Which is the problem. That was the case before, not with this new VOC, which is the actual issue.

Yes, yes it is what’s being said. The lowered rates of efficacy against omicron are against infection. Not against serious illness. The vaccine rates have always had different numbers vs infection than vs serious illness/death, right from the start.

Again, this is the best theory for why it looks milder in South Africa: a lot of immunity from vaccination and previous infection, which isn’t enough to stop a lot of people getting infected, but is enough to mostly stop them getting severely ill when they do.

We would not yet expect to see omicron deaths in the uk

That is expected given when it's arrived

Seems to me we have two paths
Act cautiously now and hope for a fast relaxation if it's as mild as hoped

Act like we are , not a lot , and take much harsher consequences if it's not quite as mild as we might hope

The NHS will always be overwhelmed, the population is forever increasing, over the past 5 years it’s gone up over 3 million. My mum needed an ambulance around November 2018 and even then she was kept in an ambulance for nearly 40 minutes then in a corridor for 3 hours while they waited for a bed to come available.

No that’s not what is being said

Yes it is. I notice a lot of misinformation being spread by you on here. The vaccines may have reduced efficacy against symptomatic disease but there is still strong indication they protect against serious illness.

Well the government know best, they have all the top scientific advisors and are the first to know so it’s not like they are all partying whilst we are waving to loved ones through the windows of care homes as we are not allowed in.