DH and at odds over cancelling Christmas trips: would you?

[workwoes123]

We live in France, all our families are in Scotland. We haven’t been back to see them since’ Christmas 2019. We managed to see my parents this summer, in France, but DHs mum (Parkinsons, osteoporosis and now dementia) went into a nursing home in summer 2020 - and he hasn’t seen any of them in person through all of this. Our children, who were very close to their grandparents, are growing up so fast. So far, so much the same for many families.

We used our twice cancelled summer flight vouchers to buy tickets for this Christmas . We are going for teo weeks, leaving the day after schools break up. DH and I triple vaccinated, DS 13 double vaccinated. The requirements in terms of testing etc have gone from minor to testing three times - two of them in the U.K. so at the mercy of expensive and unreliable private firms. In Scotland thé govt haven’t done any more than in England yet but they are encouraging people not to socialise, and to do LTF all the time.

DH is a teacher, , I work in a school, we have two boys in school. He’s really worried about getting Covid in Scotland and being stuck there. Where would we isolate? In a hotel? Presumably we can’t isolate with family?

I’d probably do it, he wants to cancel / postpone. At this stage we’d lose a bit of money on AirBNB but not too much. But are things going to be any better in February?

Argh!! WWYD? What are you doing - if you plan to travel over Christmas?

I'd go, but make plans for where you would isolate if you do have to.

You can isolate with family if you've already been staying together and they'd have been exposed anyway, so you'd all be isolating.

@Fairylights25

Not one person seemed to give a shit about others

That is not my experience at all, we live in a beautiful part of England, and everyone here is friendly. Heathrow has always been a busy frantic place. No different from any other global airport. Sorry your family and friends didn't make your feel more welcome when you had made such an effort draggondragon

You assume I went to visit family... I went for work on a duty visit not to see my mummy ffs.

@Fairylights25

Not one person seemed to give a shit about others

That is not my experience at all, we live in a beautiful part of England, and everyone here is friendly. Heathrow has always been a busy frantic place. No different from any other global airport. Sorry your family and friends didn't make your feel more welcome when you had made such an effort draggondragon

Maybe in leafly suburbia you have a blessed little bubble of joy. Proper cities and towns, not the same. People are allowed to be critical of the UK without the middle classes clutching their pearls. The politics, the abuse, the poverty, the neglect. It's a fucking disaster at the moment. Get over it.

If you can afford the tests, I'd go in these circumstances. You're vaccinated and if you mask up, social distance and ventilate indoor spaces, the chances of catching Covid are surely minimal?

@Draggondragon
OP is travelling to Scotland. We have a different approach to England - for example, the requirement to wear a mask was never stopped

I'd travel, hope you have a lovely Christmas.

Catching Covid in the UK is a very real possibility, so you do need a plan for how you would isolate if you get Covid. There is also the issue that your family's total isolation period could end up being a lot longer than 10 days if there is a gap of a few days between each family member developing symptoms. If your DH is desperate to see his Mum, could he go on a short visit alone?

I’d go

I'd go. You're taking all of the precautions that you can, I think things are only getting worse at the moment so this is probably the best point that there's going to be to come here for a while.

If you haven't been back a while you may find it a culture shock after France.

I don't think this rings true in Scotland. I spent a week in Scotland last month and found that people are still taking care with masks and distancing and behaving as though we're in the middle of a pandemic.

Where I live in England you get the impression people very much think the pandemic was yesterday (although that will probably improve with the new guidance).

I would go....it will get worse before it gets better so be likely summer 22 before you get over again....lots can happen in that time

@INeedNewShoes

If you haven't been back a while you may find it a culture shock after France.

I don't think this rings true in Scotland. I spent a week in Scotland last month and found that people are still taking care with masks and distancing and behaving as though we're in the middle of a pandemic.

Where I live in England you get the impression people very much think the pandemic was yesterday (although that will probably improve with the new guidance).

I went to Edinburgh a few weeks ago....completely different to where I live in The NW ....everyone wearing masks.....track and trace to complete in pubs/ restaurants / hotels ( not Wetherspoons though😀....they didn’t bother). I felt a lot safer out and about there than in my home town

I think there will be more restrictions after Christmas due to the fact people are going to be mixing and cases are going to rise rapidly. You'd be better off coming now

@Draggondragon

I had to travel to the UK last month after 3 years away and hated every second. Not one person seemed to give a shit about others and I was the only person wearing a mask or distancing. Heathrow is a shitshow covid factory. I couldn't wait to get out of there, I felt really vulnerable. If you haven't been back a while you may find it a culture shock after France.

This is not my experience of living in Scotland. I pass through EDI regularly and practically everyone is wearing masks, even outside the airport. Same in shops and restaurants, we've never stopped wearing them indoors (unlike England) so it's just second nature now and even though social distancing isn't a requirement I've found some cafes and pubs etc are still limiting numbers. I would travel if I were you, i think your risks of catching Covid while you're here and no higher than they are at home. Cross the isolation bridge if you come to it! I would lateral flow test everyone daily the week before you travel given they're still at school / work.

The first minister is giving a statement/announcement at 12.15 today. I would wait to see what is being said before making a decision. Despite stronger restrictions throughout / mask wearing Covid case numbers have remained higher / at some times higher than England.

My concern living in Scotland is that If you’re identified as a close contact of a person who may have the omicron variant you have to self-isolate for 10 days irrespective of vaccination status, PCR test result and age. See link below
www.nhsinform.scot/illnesses-and-conditions/infections-and-poisoning/coronavirus-covid-19/test-and-protect/coronavirus-covid-19-contact-tracing/

The other unfortunate complication for those of us in situations similar to that of the OP is the requirement by the French authorities to carry:

“A sworn statement certifying the absence of COVID-19 symptoms and of any contact with a confirmed case of COVID-19 in the 14 days prior to their crossing.”

It means any of us living in France trying to do things by the book but planning on a quick trip to the UK need a few back up plans for accommodation, etc.

I would go. Depending on your family they may or may not be happy to have you isolate with them (I would & have for example).

As far as the possibility of being “stuck”. Well you are stuck already. Stuck not seeing your family. It won’t get better before the spring. Worst case senario what will your schools do if you can’t get back, presumably it’s not so different than having covid. They must have plans in place? I think for a short lived pandemic we can expect people to avoid risk for their workplaces sake, but coming up two years now, the schools can’t expect you to not see family forever.

Go.

France just recorded its highest ever positive cases in a day - over 70,000: that's not going to help DH's nerves. This wave feels really different - I know loads and loads of people who have tested positive this time.

@notimagain

Yep, that's the statement that is worrying me. With case rates so high, it's looking likely that we'd encounter someone with Covid at some point - the whole point of going is to mix with both our families. And the 'rolling' over of the four of us getting it, one after another. I'm not worried about getting Covid but I am worried about the impact - financial, work, education - of getting caught up in all the travel restrictions!

@2022HereWeCome

thanks for the heads up - listening now!

Could you consider travelling back earlier so that if you did test positive, you would have some leeway ie test on 24th for travel on 26th maybe? Then if you were positive, the 10 days would take you to the 3rd Jan.. not ideal but possibly worth considering..

It doesn't sound like you want to go, so just cancel.

I would definitely go. A surge of cases is just that, just take loads of LFT and crack on. You may not have forever, who knows what will happen next year it could even worse...

I really feel for you OP. Reassurances would be that Scotland is MUCH stricter than England about masks etc. I'd say it comes down to if your family would be OK if you isolated with them and if you can afford the possible contingencies. Travelling at the moment is a huge gamble and only you can decide what makes most sense

@ChateauMargaux

Could you consider travelling back earlier so that if you did test positive, you would have some leeway ie test on 24th for travel on 26th maybe? Then if you were positive, the 10 days would take you to the 3rd Jan.. not ideal but possibly worth considering..

If you stick to the rules for entry into France a positive test in the UK on the 24th would mean you couldn’t legally cross back into France until the 7th at the earliest..(if I’ve counted the days correctly)..

It’s a major PITA…

I would go. I'm in Scotland and most people I know are observing the rules and wearing masks.

I have friends who have lost relatives (from old age/other diseases not so much Covid although one did get it in hospital and didn't survive) and were abroad and not able to come back and see them. Their guilt, regret and pain is awful. Terribly sad to read their messages loaded with "what if" and "I should have" type thoughts.

Your DH should see his mum. This isn't going to get better any time soon and likely numbers will get worse after Christmas mixing. I'd go. Cope with what happens if it happens but don't have regrets.

Well that was reassuring - not. A 'tsunami' of positive Omicron cases predicted over the next few days and weeks? 10 days isolation for all household members of a positive case?