Patients Waiting for Life-Saving Organ Transplant to Be Denied Treatment Unless Vaccinated

[BirdSing]

I am not "covid scaremongering."

As per the title, those awaiting organ transplants will be denied.

I presume this can be classed as "life saving medical treatment" as per my last thread?

I am not trying to "scare" anyone, I am just interested in a discussion around this and the likelihood of it being widened to include more treatments/ conditions. There are many conditions/ procedures which cause a patient to become immunosuppressed. If this is where it begins....

Here is the data for covid in QL - surely this is a huge overreaction?

I am not anti-vax or a covid denier. I am just concerned about what is happening and what is going to happen in the future.

Why is mn removing all these posts?? There was another one re QL which has disappeared...

This relates to Queensland, in case anyone thought differently.

I have no idea @Hairwizard 🤷🏻‍♀️

Your being disingenuous @BirdSing. I saw your last post which didn’t include any reference to organ transplants and a heavily edited news clip that had clearly had reference to organ transplants removed…

Putting that to one side, organ recipients have to meet very strict criteria to be considered, including being up to date on vaccinations. I’m going to presume you didn’t give a shit about that pre-covid?

Solid organ transplant recipients are considered CEV under covid and given any transplant is with the aim of prolonging a good quality of life it’s completely acceptable that valuable organs are reserved for those most likely to live longer and doing the most to prolong their own lives. This has been the case since transplants have been an option.

Fair enough @Cornettoninja

I wonder why this has just come in to force now and why, if it's so important, will it be reviewed in February?

No imagine it’s been brought into force now because people have had a chance to have the vaccine. Bit unfair to deny transplants to people when hardly anyone has been vaccinated, that might have led to vaccines going to waste.
And I’d guess the feb review is to see whether to keep the covid vaccine on the list. As I understand it the rules currently apply to all routine jabs, maybe they will keep it under review as more data around both covid, and the vaccine is available.

If there’s a medically sound reason to require people to have had a flu jab and a measles jab and a whooping cough jab etc before organ transplant, it seems reasonable that would apply to covid, and to therefore add that on to the existing rule.

No imagine? I imagine, is what I meant.

Good grief, ORGANS going to waste. Not vaccines.
I’m going for a nap, I’ve clearly become incapable of typing sense.

Your last thread was blatant scaremongering.

Transplant organs are incredibly precious. They go to the people most likely to benefit from them. Making responsible health decisions is part of that. A smoker wouldn't be offered a lung transplant or a drinker a liver transplant. I completely understand that a covid vaccine is seen as part of responsible health decisions.

Sorry you saw it that way @HereticFanjo. It wasn't my intention.

The advice from the NHS seems to be that the covid vaccination is recommended, not not mandatory for transplant patients. I wonder whether it will become mandatory in the UK.

@BirdSing

Fair enough *@Cornettoninja*

I wonder why this has just come in to force now and why, if it's so important, will it be reviewed in February?

Its come into effect now as vaccinations are now available whereas 6 months ago there was still people waiting for vaccines. As many others said on the other thread vaccination status including a number of other vaccines alongside lifestyle choices such as smoking and drinking are a component of transplant approval. There are not enough organs for everyone who needs them so doctors will prioritise patient with greatest survival rates as they always have.

As I understand, organ donation candidates have to meet all kinds of rules already; I don't think this really represents anything new.

@BirdSing

Sorry you saw it that way *@HereticFanjo*. It wasn't my intention.

The advice from the NHS seems to be that the covid vaccination is recommended, not not mandatory for transplant patients. I wonder whether it will become mandatory in the UK.

It may or may not have been your intention. This thread gives the details you neglected to include in your last one. Your last thread implied all medical treatment was going to be denied to unvaccinated people which is clearly bollocks.

I oppose mandatory vaccinations but I have worked with potential transplant recipients during the assessment process (UK) . There is a list of criteria which patients must meet in order to be put on the transplant waiting list. Every single one of the criteria are in place to ensure the best possible outcome from transplant surgery, not a single one is about judging a patient's choices. I would have been very surprised if covid vaccination had not been added.

Few patients on transplant waiting lists have a great quality of life so I would also be surprised if the vast majority hadn't been vaccinated to ensure their quality of life didn't get any worse or to make sure they were well enough for surgery if they received the call to tell them an organ was available for them.

There is a severe shortage of transplant organs. That is why the waiting list is so long.

Transplant patients must also comply with a long list of behavioral rules before transplant both to prepare for the procedure and to show that they can be compliant with the very rigorous post-transplant protocols. Having a transplant is a lifetime commitment to a medication regime, follow-up testing, and sometimes dietary restrictions. No one wants a failed organ transplant.

Transplant patients have also been shown to be especially vulnerable to Covid.

Adding a vaccination requirement to the rules is really nothing in the long list of rules these patients must follow. It doesn’t set precedent for other areas.

I understand your points, thanks everyone.

Are other vaccines mandatory? This seems to imply that they are recommended, but you will not be removed from the list if you don't have them.

As part of the transplant operation, recipients are given a massive dose of immunosuppressants and started on daily anti rejection drugs. Their immune system is more suppressed in the first three months after transplant.

DH had his kidney transplant 2 years ago and was advised to limit contact for the first few weeks (even to the point of not visiting his dying father in a hospice).

You really do sound like you’re scaremongering, because I read that and my initial reaction was outrage at such a vile idea. Then my brain kicked in and I realised so what? There’s probably loads of medication that people have to take if they’re in need of an organ transplant or are going to have a transplant. I’m not sure why a covid vaccine would be any worse or different than any of the other medication needed.

No surprise there, understandable.
Organ transplant recipients have to meet strict criteria to ensure precious organs go to those who benefit most.

We’re you expecting people to be outraged?

It's hard to comprehend, if you are going through a major surgery and will be on meds rest of your life, why would you even consider declining potentially life saving vaccine?

Are you or a family member hoping for a transplant OP as it's not something that people would generally look up to post on Mumsnet

It's in the same sort of category as needing to give up alcohol before certain liver procedures, or being under a threshold BMI for fertility treatment.

Transplant recipients are in the critically vulnerable 500,000 and particuiarly vulnerable in the immediate aftermath of the procedure. That is why all transplants were halted completely for a period last year - it simply wasn't safe enough.

This strikes me as a very sensible step, as the medical benefit is so clear

@User378436

Are you or a family member hoping for a transplant OP as it's not something that people would generally look up to post on Mumsnet

Frankly I doubt it. The link previously posted was edited to remove any mention of organ transplants and dramatically edited to highlight particular sound bites. It was clearly a propaganda piece that wasn’t even attempting to masquerade as a serious report.

I’d be interested to know how much take up of the vaccine there has been amongst transplant patients because I suspect that this isn’t even a battle on their behalf, just misuse of their conditions to further an agenda.

Transplants can be incredibly risky and can involve long, difficult recoveries. Lots of people die despite having had them, even without Covid being on the table. It would be criminal to give organs to people who aren't vaccinated. They are a very precious resource.

@User378436

Are you or a family member hoping for a transplant OP as it's not something that people would generally look up to post on Mumsnet

….for patients in an entirely country to themselves.

As for COVID stats in QLD, figures are low because they have had both domestic and international borders shut. Since vaccination rates are over 80% they are about to open up to double vaccinated visitors.

Are other vaccines mandatory?

IIRC yes you have to have flu jabs, and probably pneumonia. The teenage meningitis jab is also available regardless of age of patient (no catch up programme for adults, only given when medically indicated) I think they're less concerned about diseases which are not in such free circulation.

The latest data about the probably R for omicron (3.47, apwhuch means doubling every 3 days) means that it's cleariy the infectious disease of greatest concern at present, so obviously the one to focus on.