Omicron - feeling so upset

[purplerainnn]

I’m feeling really down after the recent news of this Omicron variant. DH has been very ill with Covid (presumably the Delta variant) despite being double jabbed, and is finally on the mend after several weeks of bed rest. I dread to think what could happen to him if he catches this new variant. The thought of it is really frightening.

The possibility of another lockdown is also really worrying me. I have young DC and don’t think I could cope with another lockdown for weeks on end, or another Christmas on our own without seeing family. How likely is it that Christmas won’t go ahead?

Another lockdown will also be a hammer blow to my job, which relies on things being open. The thought of trying to navigate and survive another lockdown is beyond exhausting.

I don’t know what the point of this post is really - I’m just feeling so low this morning and needed to rant.

@peboh

Actually the vaccinations are what causes variations. The virus mutates to find a way to survive against immunity. That's not to say I'm against vaccines, I am not. However this is how we get it to manageable levels. Is it mutates and eventually it becomes less deadly (in theory) as the mutations don't thrive.

But the worlds most dominant strain, the Delta variant, came from a large unvaccinated population - India - no?

I worry that we’ve gone too far mentally with the concept of “Covid”, in that even if it does become far less deadly, many people just cannot break the previous association with it, and therefore we’ll always live with people demanding masks and restrictions even if it does resemble a common cold in most 😭

I had a bit of a cry today remembering the time when I could book an air ticket and go anywhere in the country or the world and look forward to new adventures.

I’m in Australia and even traveling interstate is difficult at the moment.

I lived for my trips and adventures and I’m feeling some grief that I can’t travel at the moment

The thing to watch is hospitals. We already know that things have been bad in them over the autumn so far.... I don’t think that this government have much- or any- appetite for further lockdowns to save lives (let the bodies pile high, indeed) but knowing what’s going on in my own London trust right now, it isn’t going to take much to mean that hospitals are significantly overwhelmed. My brother coordinates ambulances and paramedics for shifts in our local trust. He is reporting 6-8 hour waits for crews to get out to anything less than cardiac arrest and 10-12 hour stints with ambulances sat outside hospitals waiting to hand patients over to A&E. He told me last week that he had been on crew with a patient was brought in with sepsis from an infection linked to Covid. It took them more than 20 hours to get from the ambulance into A&E and once they did there were no beds, so the patient was treated on a trolley in a corridor on a makeshift overflow ward. My brother was surprised to be in the hospital six days later and find this patient exactly where he left him, still just on a trolley! This was how the patient recovered. He never got a bed or a proper place on a ward. Luckily this patient was otherwise young and fit- early 30s- and has made adequate recovery in what amounts to a Field Hospital, but other less robust patients may not fair so well in that situation. Plus, it begs the question, what do they do when they run out of trolleys?!

With that in mind, I suppose that we all need to be sensible and try and take our own precautions where possible in order to help hospitals and keep them out of “the red zone” that would necessitate a lockdown. So, wearing masks indoors; limiting social interactions indoors; not mixing with too many people generally; not having crowded school and work social events with lots of mixing of departments/ages; working from home if we can. How feasible this all is I don’t know, though, especially as our government have spent six months facilitating an attitude of that it’s all over snd we are out of the woods. Even masks in shops and on public transport feels like it might be a big ask for some people now.

@ShellfishLove

I worry that we’ve gone too far mentally with the concept of “Covid”, in that even if it does become far less deadly, many people just cannot break the previous association with it, and therefore we’ll always live with people demanding masks and restrictions even if it does resemble a common cold in most 😭

That’s my fear too. I’m not scared of Covid itself at all but the government restrictions and control of myself.

@bluetongue

I had a bit of a cry today remembering the time when I could book an air ticket and go anywhere in the country or the world and look forward to new adventures.

I’m in Australia and even traveling interstate is difficult at the moment.

I lived for my trips and adventures and I’m feeling some grief that I can’t travel at the moment

Me too. It sucks.

[quote withgraceinmyheart]If it helps, the doctor who first discovered it has said she started investigating because her covid patients were experiencing very mild illness for only a couple of days. It really might be good news.

www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/south-african-doctor-raised-alarm-omicron-variant-says-symptoms/[/quote]
Hoping it's a mild version.

And if it is. They just just let it Rio through the population.

It's well known covid immunity is better after an infection that the vaccs

It’s a big worry OP and rather than give false hope I’ll just say it’s a case of waiting to see how this progresses. The ‘mild’ reports from South Africa were taken out of context and have been debunked, at this point they don’t know what will happen or how the mutation will affect larger numbers.

BJ did say it looks like this may be able to evade immunity from previous infections and it is possible it could be vaccine resistant, so the outlook is mixed for us all hence the cautious approach (bare minimum) we are taking for now.

We’re in the perfect storm for a new variant though, with the cold weather, festive mixing, slow booster uptake and Covid fatigue amongst the vast majority of the population it’s the ideal moment which is what may be alarming the world governments.

Take as many precautions as you can to keep you and your family safe to be able to enjoy Christmas, however it may look for us all.

Actually the vaccinations are what causes variations. The virus mutates to find a way to survive against immunity

Actually no. Viruses are mot sentient, they don't " find a way" to do anything. Mutations occur randomly and they either give an advantage for replication or they don't. End of.

[quote tanstaafl]@peboh

Actually the vaccinations are what causes variations. The virus mutates to find a way to survive against immunity. That's not to say I'm against vaccines, I am not. However this is how we get it to manageable levels. Is it mutates and eventually it becomes less deadly (in theory) as the mutations don't thrive.

But the worlds most dominant strain, the Delta variant, came from a large unvaccinated population - India - no?[/quote]
Of course it can mutate in any situation where there is any immunity, but what I'm saying is that we can't solely blame the unvaccinated. Every single person of the population could be vaccinated and we'd still see variants. It's the reason the flu vaccine changes yearly. Because the strains mutate to evade antibodies.

Hope he is feeling better soon.

We won't lockdown again, simply because they know people won't do it. We did such a lot last year, collectively, to not be much further forward even with vaccines.

In the press conference last night, Boris stated that if you're in contact with someone with the new variant then you must isolate for 10 days, even when double jabbed. In the next breath, he's saying it's essential to have the booster. How many vaccines must we have before we have the green light to live life?

Actually the vaccinations are what causes variations. The virus mutates to find a way to survive against immunity

Mutations are random. The more Covid infections the more likely it is a random mutation will occur.
Having 1/2 the population vaccinated and 1/2 not vaccinated means Covid can spread in the non vaccinated 1/2. When this random mutation occurs in the unvaccinated population, the mutated Covid can then infect the vaccinated 1/2 of the population.

A properly vaccinated population would be unlikely to produce a vaccine resistant strain - because there would be very little Covid replicating in the community. Therefore random mutations are less likely to occur.

BoJo can go fuck himself if he thinks I am giving up Christmas again. We are all double / triple vaccinated, we have lft to use and that’s that.

Only one part of your concern OP but honestly I think if they lockdown there’ll be riots.

@Starplek

Not sending enough.
We through millions away did you not see that

@samsalmon

Vaccine passports like a lot of Europe.
They roles they out to late too

Also kept social distancing and masks

And so forth

We don’t have the stomach for another lockdown. So bored of this phrase. Itu docs don’t have the stomach for more patients gurgling on their own fluids with no friendly faces in sight.

@purplerainnn

Your DH will now have Covid immunity for a time, so I wouldn't worry about him catching the new variant.

@Waxonwaxoff0 will he have immunity against the Omicron variant though, or just the Delta one?

It depends on he exact specifics of the mutations, but he is likely to have close to 100% protection against Delta and 40%-95% against Omicron from the provisional date, either from past infection or Omicron. It does wane over time as antibody levels drop, but T-cells still remain.

@CloseThePackWithAClickClack

BoJo can go fuck himself if he thinks I am giving up Christmas again. We are all double / triple vaccinated, we have lft to use and that’s that.

Only one part of your concern OP but honestly I think if they lockdown there’ll be riots.

If Omicron turns out to be worse than Delta (we still don’t know) there may be no choice but to lockdown or impose stronger mitigation’s. BJ said himself yesterday this mutation has the potential to reinfect people and has the ability to evade vaccines, do you understand what implications that would have for us all?

Living with that type of Covid without restrictions would breakdown our society very quickly, life would be impossible for us all until a tweaked vaccine was redistributed.

Christmas is the least of our worries, you need to be pragmatic and understand the wider context, this is a global problem that is likely to not go away anytime soon.

Actually the vaccinations are what causes variations. The virus mutates to find a way to survive against immunity.

No, mutations arise as a result of genetic errors and changes when the virus reproduces. They aren’t caused or driven by vaccination - they happen anyway whether vaccinations exist or not. Viruses aren’t “trying to find a way to survive against immunity” - mutations happen constantly and viruses don’t have intention: by some definitions they aren’t even alive.

I doubt another lockdown is on the cards. This is going to happen on and off now forever surely. You can't lockdown each time.
I do think vaccination is the only way. Given all that's going on, vaccine passports get my vote, with perhaps some exemption (with mitigation such as testing/ masks) for the small number of people who really can't be vaccinated for clinical reasons.

This new one might be a lot weaker, the scientists don't know yet I assume ?
I've had covid 19 for a week now and still feel awful , I've had two jabs and a flu jab so I understand people's fears , but I will recover and just pleased I'm not in hospital.
I dread to think how ill I might have been without the jabs though.
It seems a set back this new variant now spreading around , but if it ' only ' has mild cold symptoms and people get over it quickly , it may not be as bad? ..
Until they know more then there's little point in worrying (although I know that's easier said than done )

Meh, we kept masks in Scotland, even in secondary schools where 12-16yo have had vaccine, across Scotland high uptake/compliance rates for vaccines etc. Hasn’t stopped anything, of course, and the government control of our every day lives continues.
Masks back on in England will do bugger all for every day spread of the virus, but it seems to make folk believe they are saving others and it brings out the worst in the virtue-signalling social media minions ( spotted comedian Jenny Eclair had posted about punching those on her train without a mask…demonstrating a total ignorance around hidden disabilities or mental health issues, which mean wearing a mask is traumatic).

Harming the mental health for an entire generation has long lasting consequences, unlike a dose of the virus (‘insert strain here’) for the majority of our population, whether they’re vaccinated or not.

@peboh
Actually the vaccinations are what causes variations. The virus mutates to find a way to survive against immunity. That's not to say I'm against vaccines, I am not. However this is how we get it to manageable levels. Is it mutates and eventually it becomes less deadly (in theory) as the mutations don't thrive.
The liklihood is that Omicron originally came from one individual who was had a poor immune system that was unable to successfully clear the infection over a sustained period of time, allowing the virus to mutate over time as a poor immune response partially but never fully cleared it.

You can also get one off mutations which have huge impacts, or a combination of two strains which can make a virus hugely more virulent or lethal. However none of those scenarios is influenced by vaccination rates.