Are schools allowed to shut down classes / year groups if lots have Covid?

[Tuliprain]

My child’s year group are going down like flies at the moment. Just wondered if there is a point when the school is able to close for that class or year group? Or will they just have to keep going?

@Sherrystrull

School staff are sitting ducks and for many of us it's when our vaccines are starting to wane.

If you are at risk (age / vulnerability) you’ll get a booster

If you are too young for a booster and low risk but still concerned most children will have had it by the time it wanes and cases will be lower

The talk about high level of unvaccinated should be in a room with high immunity, as children will have high levels of immunity

but now that's not good enough

Possibly because despite being vaccinated they’re still getting ill. Pesky teachers, catching Covid despite being vaccinated and having to take time off work.

Many of us pointed out early on that the biggest problems in schools would be caused by staff illness (the vaccines not providing 100% protection) due to the bonkers policy of return to normal, remove all meaningful mitigations. Apart from largely useless CO2 monitors which in many cases haven’t arrived.

If you are at risk (age / vulnerability) you’ll get a booster

Missing the point spectacularly, though not surprisingly.

If there's one thing that's emerged now that schools are back is that 1) the only concern expressed by non-teachers is keeping the kids in school at all costs 2) Staff absences are what will shut classes down.

Soooo, school staff need to be a priority for boosters.

Spare me the bollocks about other occupations, this thread is about schools.

@echt

If you are at risk (age / vulnerability) you’ll get a booster

Missing the point spectacularly, though not surprisingly.

If there's one thing that's emerged now that schools are back is that 1) the only concern expressed by non-teachers is keeping the kids in school at all costs 2) Staff absences are what will shut classes down.

Soooo, school staff need to be a priority for boosters.

Spare me the bollocks about other occupations, this thread is about schools.

You want boosters before six months?

I don’t care when you have it but wouldn’t you prefer to follow general advice

Boost yourself silly if you want

@borntobequiet

but now that's not good enough

Possibly because despite being vaccinated they’re still getting ill. Pesky teachers, catching Covid despite being vaccinated and having to take time off work.

Many of us pointed out early on that the biggest problems in schools would be caused by staff illness (the vaccines not providing 100% protection) due to the bonkers policy of return to normal, remove all meaningful mitigations. Apart from largely useless CO2 monitors which in many cases haven’t arrived.

Nothing will provide 100% protection against Covid. We are all going to catch it at some point. May as well accept it. There aren't going to be any mitigations put in place at this stage.

@Tuliprain

My child’s year group are going down like flies at the moment. Just wondered if there is a point when the school is able to close for that class or year group? Or will they just have to keep going?

Yes, but it's usually not the school's decision. That decision comes from PHE, often via the LEA.

It only happens after x number of cases all happening at the same time, and all within a contained class/group rather than spread across the school.

When I say PHE, I think it's actually another group now but doing a similar job.

@GreenLakes

DH is headteacher at a free school and he has never closed a class since September. His overriding priority is keeping all DC in school, as he saw first hand the damage closures did to education and wellbeing.

Even when only a quarter of a class didn’t have covid, he has kept it open using supply teachers, TAs and even janitors at times.

What on earth is the benefit to keeping a class open with covid spreading round it, only for the children to be supervised by a janitor?! That's no better educationally than remote education and worse from a health perspective.

Ours stayed open. Which is right because if you shut down, Covid doesn’t go away for unvaccinated children does it? They will just get it in Dec or January

PeachesPumpkin.

It's incorrect that schools will never be told to close.
It's in the guidelines and risk assessments that it can happen if other precautions haven't helped. Schools can and have closed their doors to some classes across the country this academic year.

Echt if you want to be priority for boosters when would you have it?

I fear that some parents will be quite happy for the janitor to be covering classses. For some it's not about education, it's about childcare.

If schools close classes it will almost certainly be because there are so many staff off with covid and they cannot get any cover in. I could work on supply but I, and many like me, refuse to do it. I am not preparing to put myself into a badly ventilated room full of non vaccinated children at this time of rapidly rising cases amongst children. I'm certainly not going to put myself and my own family at risk just so some parents can have childcare.

[quote toomuchlaundry]@Waxonwaxoff0 are 100% of the people who are in the same room as you at work unvaccinated? That is the case for Primary teachers and for many Secondary teachers[/quote]
And there’s a huge amount of close contact for more than 20 minutes at a time.
Yes, lots of other people are also in risky environments, but I could work every day twice over as supply, covering for teachers with Covid.
Agencies are desperate for staff.

@PeachesPumpkin of course it’s is- it’s really really hard. I’m an ex teacher myself and my kids school had 14 out of 30 positive in one week. All the other KS2 classes had the same (this was back in September)
But kids need to be in school if well. By hook or by crook. They must never ever shut schools down again unless there is absolutely no way round it with staffing.
I know it’s asking a hell of a lot from teachers but the reprocussions for kids not being (if they are well) in school is just enormous, not to mention families not being able to work to repeatedly be at home with their kids. Dipping in and out of school having 10 days off ‘just in case’ is just not acceptable now we have vaccines. It’s just not.
So many vulnerable kids left at home either unattended or in danger- school is their only respite.

Not the point but the "school isn't childcare" issue.

No it isnt, the primary objective of school is education. but the fact that children do the same hours each day means it is, by default, part of peoples childcare plans if they need to work.
Not many people would pay for, or have back up childcare 9-3 for school age children while they are in school. And normally working parents have arranged and paid for separate child care for the hours children are not in school (childminders, afterschool clubs, holiday clubs etc)

Of course teachers and school staff shouldn't be put at unneccessary risk when there is an outbreak (and some schools might need to close) but it can't be ignored that this will be a childcare issue for many women families.

DS's nursery class have just been sent home for a week, 17 of the kids in his class are waiting for results due to symptoms or have had a positive result. At the minute they are reopening Monday but depends on how many get positive results

Nothing will provide 100% protection against Covid.

Well, of course not. You’d have to be dim to think that anything would. My point wasn’t about limited protection via vaccine - I felt far happier about interacting with students in an educational setting after mine, and even more so after the booster.

What school staff have said all along is that, given vaccines only provide limited protection, other measures should have been put in place, such as:

-Rolling out child vaccination over the summer break
-Installing improved ventilation in schools (such as the portable systems I see in some shops) and guidance emphasising the expectation of good mitigation practice such as regular mask wearing indoors
-Strengthening and improving contact tracing and monitoring in schools, with additional help so that schools aren’t carrying the burden alone
-Reintroducing isolation for contact with persons testing positive
-Proper planning and provision for a rapid move to online learning if required, for all schools, including those in deprived areas that found it challenging in previous lockdowns
-Contingency planning in case of exams being affected again, with clear guidelines and resources from the DFE
-Making sure that school staff are prioritised for vaccinations and boosters

And so on. As per common sense and lessons learned.

@NuttyinNotts because there is a little issue of parents having to work and not just lolling about at home- you know, to feed clothe and house their family?

@Silverswirl surely it depends on the age of the DC. Local school has closed its sixth form due to spiralling cases. Students are old enough to be at home and can do independent learning, especially with a good remote provision. A small number of students who can’t access this provision have been dotted round the sixth form block. Hopefully, this will help get things back under control.

If there is no supply to cover the other teachers are not able to cover that is about to happen a lot now.

[quote toomuchlaundry]@Silverswirl surely it depends on the age of the DC. Local school has closed its sixth form due to spiralling cases. Students are old enough to be at home and can do independent learning, especially with a good remote provision. A small number of students who can’t access this provision have been dotted round the sixth form block. Hopefully, this will help get things back under control.[/quote]
Oh yes, sixth form and older secondary totally- not as much of an issue re childcare.
I’m more meaning primary schools really

I'm currently at home with my year 7 (old in the year, no SEN) and he's been in tears most lessons today because he's been unable to hear the lesson or not been given the correct links.
I am fortunate that I'm able to be reasonably flexible about work and can (try to) wfh while printing stuff put for him/emailing the teacher/reassuring him he won't get into trouble for things he is unable to access.
I think its going to be difficult for him to do a whole day of self directed learning or not get in a state when things go wrong but I will have to leave him to it on certain days.

We got a text yesterday saying thats what they will have to do as a last resort. 7 teachers out sick and only 2 substitutes, the school is finding it very hard.

'What on earth is the benefit to keeping a class open with covid spreading round it, only for the children to be supervised by a janitor?! That's no better educationally than remote education and worse from a health perspective.'
This. Also, this implies kids don't have long term issues from covid. All teachers should be offered the booster. If we really wanted to help schools stay open in a genuine way, we'd have invested in measures such as ventilation to help reduce spread. Teachers are expected to take too much risk on in situations like the OPs.