Fully Vaccinated until…?

[Thewiseoneincognito]

With the ‘sacking’ of 60,000 care workers today due to being unvaccinated it’s got me wondering how this will play out moving forward and what system would need to be adopted to manage and monitor people’s vaccination status as the months roll on.

What will happen to those that are fully vaccinated now but who may choose to not have a booster? At what point will people be deemed unvaccinated, or is that it? Two doses and irrespective of waning immunity you’re still to be considered double vaxxed for…life?

As time goes on and immunity wanes in younger age groups will they still be motivated to take boosters if life has seemingly regained a sense of ‘normality’ without restrictions in place? I can’t help but feel having varying levels of immunity throughout the population is not going to be a maintainable equilibrium long term, after all we would be creating opportunities for the virus to thrive as vaccination wears off.

Will employers ever be in a position to sack you if you’re immunity has ‘waned’ and hasn’t been boosted? Thoughts?

I wondered this about the April deadline for NHS staff. Why didn't they announce it in September/October so that the April deadline would include a booster too? Someone fully vaccinated in the next 8 weeks with first vaccine today could have quite waning immunity by April.

How would our rates look if 40-50% of the under 50’s didn’t take boosters? Would this impact our approach going forward in terms of mitigation’s?

Why would it matter what the rates are if regular vaccines for the vulnerable keep hospitalisation rates low?

[quote Thewiseoneincognito]@Refractory I agree the initial plan was two jabs would be enough to move on from this without any need for future intervention. Convincing healthy younger people to maintain boosters is going to be tricky- the vaccine effects can not be denied looking at the data so far but that’s through a high uptake on the proviso two jabs would be enough.

How would our rates look if 40-50% of the under 50’s didn’t take boosters? Would this impact our approach going forward in terms of mitigation’s?

It’s too soon to say now but we need to be pragmatic about the potential implications of vaccine wane in the coming months and how that affects the virus’s behaviour.

If waned immunity does become problematic should we consider regulating vaccination status? What does this mean for the fully unvaccinated?[/quote]
Mandatory vaccines are the road to hell. Imagine if Donald Trump were the one advancing this idea? We'd have an excellent chance of defeating it, naturally, because the civil libertarians who warned us of what a dangerous dictator he was would be.... protecting our civil liberties.

As I said, IMO this is all about the optics of the waning immunity and how to reconcile their various constituencies. I'm sure they'd love to leave complaint/double-jabbed seniors alone.

@Tealightsandd
I find your comment deeply offensive.
You obviously have absolutely no idea about what's going on. Your pretence of caring for carers absolutely reeks of bullshit.

@bumbleymummy

How would our rates look if 40-50% of the under 50’s didn’t take boosters? Would this impact our approach going forward in terms of mitigation’s?

Why would it matter what the rates are if regular vaccines for the vulnerable keep hospitalisation rates low?

Because our vaccination strategy is to encourage everyone, or at least a large majority to be vaccinated in order to reduce transmission and infections, we’re already hovering around 40k cases and 100-200 deaths per day that’s WITH a high uptake of vaccinations. Those statistics will start to look very different if our ‘fully vaccinated’ numbers start to decrease. Deaths would start to rise in the vulnerable, the risk of severe illness would likely increase across the 30+ groups.

Boosters would be necessary to simply maintain the rather grim situation we’re in NOW, restrictions would be back unless the vaccinated numbers stay as high as the initial two jabs. I really can’t see how we move on from this without mandating boosters? Right now the vaccine is the only thing the vast majority are relying on, once that protection wanes what happens then?

The vaccination strategy, such as it is, has resulted in an infection reservoir that is mostly vaccinated.

Can you see that this might present a problem?

Because our vaccination strategy is to encourage everyone, or at least a large majority to be vaccinated in order to reduce transmission and infections

But clearly that isn’t working because the virus is not as effective at preventing infection/transmission. Look at Waterford in Ireland - the highest vaccination coverage but infections have been rising and they now have the highest infection rate per 100,000.

Our strategy needs to change. Let’s play ti the vaccine’s strengths - reducing the risk of serious illness/hospitalisation - get boosters out to those who need them and stop using restrictive policies that don’t work and are killing people’s jobs/livelihoods/opportunities.

@bumbleymummy the vaccines strengths only work if everyone stays boosted.

@bumbleymummy

I would think eventually the government will acknowledge only the vulnerable need to be vaccinated - then the hysteria will die down.

I thought we were getting there but then they mandated it for care workers here and other countries are bringing in even more restrictions (despite already having mask mandates and vaccine passports) so it feels like it’s still going.

Oh I agree, it's beyond ridiculous - it started feeling like we're being trolled long ago.

I just think it can't go on forever, purely from a financial point of view - it's just not sustainable.

[quote GrannyPantsAreGreat]@Tealightsandd
I find your comment deeply offensive.
You obviously have absolutely no idea about what's going on. Your pretence of caring for carers absolutely reeks of bullshit.[/quote]
Completely agree. All those that suddenly care about the vulnerable remind me of those who suddenly care about the homeless when immigration is discussed

[quote Thewiseoneincognito]@bumbleymummy the vaccines strengths only work if everyone stays boosted.[/quote]
www.science.org/content/article/having-sars-cov-2-once-confers-much-greater-immunity-vaccine-vaccination-remains-vital

What about natural immunity? Do you not follow the science?

Sign of a lost argument.... resorting to unfounded accusations. Talking of offensive.

Anyhow I'll leave you to judge people by your own (low?) standards.

Meanwhile, it's very simple.

I've long advocated for the end of exploitation of cheap labour.

Pay well, offer decent working conditions. That's of fundamental importance to me. For both altruistic reasons - and also, yes, because we need to attract the right people for our most vital jobs.

The primary function of a job is not to give someone work. It is to perform the required tasks of the job. If someone is unable or unwilling to follow the job requirements, it's not the right job for them.

I also support UBI. Partly because it's the moral thing to do (and will be increasingly needed with the growth of robot labour). But also because quite simply some people (whatever the job) are not capable of work for various reasons.

Separately, a civilised society takes care of its most vulnerable. Holistic care. Being(and feeling) safe from a deadly virus, and knowing you are in a place that respects good infection control, is as important as being washed, dressed, and medicated.

Staff have a choice where to work.

Vulnerable care home residents do not have a choice in being vulnerable and needing care.

Care homes (and hospitals) have a duty of care.

@Tealightsandd

Bumbley, it's bedtime. I'm too tired to find it now but other people posted some helpful clearly explained information and links yesterday. Studies suggest unvaccinated are more likely to catch and transmit.

All three people I know with Covid at the moment are vaccinated.

One of them's my dad - he's had 3 vaccines.

Another a teenager who was only just vaccinated a month ago.

Looks like they don't work to me.

Personal anecdotes are not the same as well researched peer reviewed studies.

I hope your dad is ok and makes a good recovery.

Another anecdote reporters in the metro:

David Crabtree, who runs Crabtree Homes, in Ilkley, West Yorkshire, said: ‘My anger is for those who fought so valuably during the start of the pandemic, with thousands of frontline staff dying, to be rewarded with a P45

*I am in favour of people being vaccinated, I’m pro-vaccine but I’m against it being forced onto people

One hundred per cent of my staff and residents are vaccinated and we had a outbreak five weeks ago where two people died

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2021/11/12/birmingham-care-home-boss-in-tears-as-she-sacks-six-for-not-being-double-vaccinated-15588805/amp/