Vaccinating children - interesting review article in the BMJ

[bumbleymummy]

“In this review, we do not argue for or against vaccinating children against COVID-19 but rather outline the points to consider and highlight the complexity of policy decisions on COVID-19 vaccination in this age group.”

adc.bmj.com/content/early/2021/11/01/archdischild-2021-323040

Yes, saw this being tweeted by various people

Written in August of course, which iirc was before the JCVI passed the decision onto the CMOs.

I suppose that now the over 12s programme is underway (and even completed in many countries) there'll soon be more positive data to look at

Pollard has been a voice of reason often- doing his best to debunk the immunity/herd immunity stuff, and Finn is well known as a huge supporter of childhood and other vaccinations.

Hopefully their voices will be heard more, above the pseudo-science claims.

I wonder if Dingwall's departure from the JCVI will make them shift further to only having scientists on their board and to carefully check any background agendas of potential members. Though you'd think they'd have done that to start with. Still, once bitten!

Thank you for sharing. Will read.

That’s really interesting. Blows out of the water most of the anti-vax (for children) arguments I’ve read on here (eg low death/hospitalisation rates, claims that other things regularly immunised against are worse such as chickenpox and flu etc).

To me reading that you can very clearly see the benefits outweigh the risks. Lots of ‘theoretical risk of’ and ‘but no cases reported’.

Looks really positive and hope it allays the fears of some parents who have been feeling anxious or unsure about it.

To me reading that you can very clearly see the benefits outweigh the risks.

Really? I read it the other way - not necessarily that the risks dramatically outweigh the benefits but just that there is much uncertainty. I guess that just shows how difficult it is to make these policy decisions and how much of a grey area there is. Perhaps people may have a bit more sympathy for the JCVI when they see how many points needed to be considered and how much data is/isn’t available? It doesn’t look like a straightforward decision at all IMO. I think it provides a good, balanced discussion and plenty of extra reading in the citations if anyone is interested. And yes, it is from back in August so many more children have already had the virus now (and many more adults have been vaccinated/booster) which will probably change things a bit too.

That is interesting - under the adverse section it has myocarditis but notes that the risk of it is higher from catching covid than from the vaccine.

Theoretical risk of thrombosis - which it says is less in adolescents and teens and no cases have been reported.

Then it talks about vaccine cost, supply and impact on the current immunisation schedule - all of which, feel like to me, they are not good reasons against compared to the benefits. Those benefits seem to be for whole population, and reducing non-direct issues caused by lockdowns/school closures etc (mental health etc).

It’s great there’s been no major issues so far with the vaccine roll out to this age group.

The vaccine has had such a good take-up in my DC’s school, only a handful didn’t have it!

Hoping it’ll be approved for the under 12s soon, too

That’s good @Redlocks28! My DD is 12 in next few weeks and can’t wait to be eligible to have it!

Thank you for sharing, very well balanced paper. While they draw no conclusions, it's evident the benefits outweigh the risks particularly when considering the main risk being myocarditis is a risk with or without vaccination and even then the risk is higher from infection.

Personally I'd like to see data pertaining to the millions of 12-15 years already vaccinated in the USA, Israel and Europe. Many will be coming up to 6 months soon from their first dose now so possibly more data available.

@Pinkyxx This data from Israel was interesting re covid infection vs vaccination and severe outcomes:

“It may be fairer to divide the number of myocarditis by 2nd dose count, and not by all shots. Still, this would give ~3.4 severe cases per million vaccinated for 16-19y old males, and 6/M for 20-24. In contrast, you get hundreds per million severe COVID and PIMS.”

mobile.twitter.com/yuvharpaz/status/1456331794664632325

Quite staggering when it’s broken down like that, and clear that in Israel benefits of the vaccine are extremely high.

Also in that table, worth noting that severe outcomes per million from vaccination in the 12-15 group was zero in both boys and girls. Good news!

@BewareTheLibrarians thank you so much for sharing that data, I have to agree the benefits of the vaccine are very high when you look at it that way. Israel are well known for expertise in this area, perhaps more credence (air time?) should be given to what is pretty compelling research.

Or maybe I don’t have an ‘agenda’ at all and I just shared an article because I thought it was interesting? :)

To me reading that you can very clearly see the benefits outweigh the risks.

Really? I read it the other way

That says it all.

Oh look! You cut off half my sentence where I explained that I think it shows the uncertainty, that it’s not clearly black and white and that it’s clearly difficult to make policy decisions. What’s your agenda @winterisaroundthecorner?

But everyone knows what you think. There's no uncertainty about how you feel about vaccinating children, except for those with underlying conditions, right? You are happy to deny the choice of those parents who want their children vaccinated.
I have no agenda, I am 100% pro vaccination.

Actually, it looks more like you think you know what I think and this post doesn’t fit into your ideas about me so you’re going to have a go at me instead.

I’m glad others have found it interesting/helpful. :)

Then it talks about vaccine cost, supply and impact on the current immunisation schedule - all of which, feel like to me, they are not good reasons against compared to the benefits.

I agree.
I guess on a government scale they’re valid points but as a parent I don’t care how much it costs us and I don’t think that should be included in the cons. Take out these points and the benefits massively outweigh the risks.

If COVID-19 remains a generally mild disease in children and in vaccinated adults, it may not be necessary to vaccinate all children.

So if the majority of adults were vaccinated quick enough there’d be no need to vaccinate all children. But I guess it’s too late for that now unfortunately.

Thank you for posting this OP it is nice to read an unbiased article.

Hopefully those who are against the vaccine or are still unsure read this.

So if the majority of adults were vaccinated quick enough there’d be no need to vaccinate all children. But I guess it’s too late for that now unfortunately.

I think we actually did quite well in vaccinating adults compared to other countries. Prioritising the most at risk groups also seemed to work well - by ensuring good uptake in general and by reducing numbers of hospitalisations.