Do you think government will recommend return to ‘WFH if you can’?

[SophieH83]

Some of my colleagues (perhaps wishfully thinking) believe that gov will reintroduce ‘WFH if you can’ any day now.

Do you think it’s likely?

@StormTreader

"No - absolutely not Employees already have a right to request FLEXIBLE working at the employers discretion. . You are paid by your employer, a business needs to have happy customers (civil servants excepted I suppose) - so it is their decision not one sanctioned/permitted by the Government. Why should you have the LEGAL right just because you prefer it? very selfish."

I believe I hear the dulcet tones of an ineffective manager who likes to stand over their employees shoulders :D

I am a manager of nothing - except my own life. I am also one of the posters who believes in seeing the bigger picture - you should try it sometime. MN tends to be so full of entitled middle class, comfortable selfish individuals who see life through the prism of their own comfortable existence.
If I was an employer and employees came tripping into my office asserting their legal right to work from home so they can save on childcare, save commuting and visit the gym - they would not last long.

@Schulte

Pedantic.

@bunnybuggs

Agreed. I have members of my team moaning that teams meetings sometimes clash with the school run. On what planet do they think that’s an employer’s responsibility to work around?

@ThePoisonousMushroom

I like it because I gain 4 hours a day, 4 hours where I'm not stuck on a human cattle train, 4 hours where I can cook for my children and husband and eat dinner with them. I can keep on top of the house and cleaning. I can also go to the gym which in current times keeps me alive

I guess the difference is I would never have taken a job a 2 hour each way commute away, for exactly those reasons. I deliberately moved to a less expensive area with a lower paid job precisely to avoid that.
Now I have to spend all my time in a pokey corner of my house, that is not set up for home working because I never would have chose to work from home. Because I hate it!

Me too, I chose to live within cycling distance to work, and to have a smaller house with no spare room to do this. Now I have to work at the dining table. Stupid me!

Masks and distancing definitely need to return. They’re simple measures that reduce transmission with no negative effects on the economy. WFH helps too, it doesn’t have to be full time or for everyone. Lots of workplaces are moving towards hybrid working with 3 days in the office and 2 days WFH.

@marieantoinehairnet the lack of commute doesn’t seem to have done much for your stress levels if you’re snapping at people on Mumsnet at 10am on a Sunday.

If I was an employer and employees came tripping into my office asserting their legal right to work from home so they can save on childcare, save commuting and visit the gym - they would not last long

Funny that. I’m a manager and my team and I have been working remotely for most of the last 18 months. In return for shoving less CO emissions into the atmosphere, higher productivity and more flexibility from staff in terms of tasks taken on I now have a far happier and productive team (who incidentally are from a range of social classes). Your understanding of the bigger picture obviously lags behind those of us employers who have moved forward with the times.

If I was an employer and employees came tripping into my office asserting their legal right to work from home so they can save on childcare, save commuting and visit the gym - they would not last long
That’s fine but you need to be prepared for them to quit and take their skills to a more accommodating employer. Lots of applicants are now refusing jobs that don’t offer at least partial WFH.

[quote chalamet]@marieantoinehairnet the lack of commute doesn’t seem to have done much for your stress levels if you’re snapping at people on Mumsnet at 10am on a Sunday.[/quote]
Yes quite

@SirChenjins

If I was an employer and employees came tripping into my office asserting their legal right to work from home so they can save on childcare, save commuting and visit the gym - they would not last long

Funny that. I’m a manager and my team and I have been working remotely for most of the last 18 months. In return for shoving less CO emissions into the atmosphere, higher productivity and more flexibility from staff in terms of tasks taken on I now have a far happier and productive team (who incidentally are from a range of social classes). Your understanding of the bigger picture obviously lags behind those of us employers who have moved forward with the times.

This is also my experience, this way of working works, as f you want a diverse group of individuals who seek a wlb. If you seek slaves to work, let's revert...

Agree @marieantoinehairnet

It’s always been the same with some managers. I’ve been in the workplace for 30 years now and have seen many changes in that time - some cope with culture shift very well, others less so.

My dh is currently doing a mix of WFH and in open plan office. As he is working on models and spreadsheets he prefers using his office at home in spare bedroom as saves one hour 20 minute commute each way plus £24 cost each day for train ticket. I think government will wait about 3 weeks then if infection rates keep going up put put call for WFH of you can. I appreciate not all can WFH effectively and some need office for mental health.

@SirChenjins

I do agree with you, however there are some people WFH who are fully taking the piss. I’m not a manager, but the behaviour of some of my colleagues is questionable. We are on the same pay band as nurses yet two of my colleagues have taken up Uber driving jobs on top of already being employed. Employees moaning teams meetings are clashing with school run times etc.

You give some people an inch and they really do take the piss, human nature I guess. They’ll spoil it for themselves in the end no doubt as our manager is way out of his depth with our lot.

@Marelle

Masks and distancing definitely need to return. They’re simple measures that reduce transmission with no negative effects on the economy. WFH helps too, it doesn’t have to be full time or for everyone. Lots of workplaces are moving towards hybrid working with 3 days in the office and 2 days WFH.

I see why people say that masks have no economic impact - I think they're wrong, but I see why they say it - but how can anyone argue that about distancing? It has a huge impact on how many businesses run if they have limits on how close people can be, and for some the lower capacity is completely unviable.

Why does everything in this country turn into a fuck-you-race to the bottom? WFH if you can means just that: the paralegal in a 6 person house share can’t, the woman whose marriage will suffer can’t, the woman cooped in her flat going stir crazy can’t. lots of others can and so everyone doing what’s best for them ends up reducing crowding by 50% and we all benefit. Why does it always degenerate to I can’t so you can’t /I must so you must?

This is what I don’t get either. You can’t stop people living their lives every winter to ‘save’ the health service….

Well if we stopped voting Tory that'd help. They've cut it to the bone, less beds etc and this is the result.

[quote Treblebass]@SirChenjins

I do agree with you, however there are some people WFH who are fully taking the piss. I’m not a manager, but the behaviour of some of my colleagues is questionable. We are on the same pay band as nurses yet two of my colleagues have taken up Uber driving jobs on top of already being employed. Employees moaning teams meetings are clashing with school run times etc.

You give some people an inch and they really do take the piss, human nature I guess. They’ll spoil it for themselves in the end no doubt as our manager is way out of his depth with our lot.[/quote]
If only some managers could actually manage staff.

[quote Treblebass]@SirChenjins

I do agree with you, however there are some people WFH who are fully taking the piss. I’m not a manager, but the behaviour of some of my colleagues is questionable. We are on the same pay band as nurses yet two of my colleagues have taken up Uber driving jobs on top of already being employed. Employees moaning teams meetings are clashing with school run times etc.

You give some people an inch and they really do take the piss, human nature I guess. They’ll spoil it for themselves in the end no doubt as our manager is way out of his depth with our lot.[/quote]
And like wise there are people who take the piss in an office too - we all know people like that, we’ve all worked for people like that, we’ve all managed people for whom the word presenteeism was invented.

If colleagues are complaining about meeting times clashing that’s up to your manager to manage them more effectively. Uber driving - providing it’s not being done in their work hours - so what? If they are doing it in work hours then that’s up to your manager to deal with them.

@MrsWooster - I absolutely agree.

@Marelle

If I was an employer and employees came tripping into my office asserting their legal right to work from home so they can save on childcare, save commuting and visit the gym - they would not last long That’s fine but you need to be prepared for them to quit and take their skills to a more accommodating employer. Lots of applicants are now refusing jobs that don’t offer at least partial WFH.

This is happening in my dhs workplace at the moment.They tried to take a hardline return to the office approach and people just found other work and quit. There is also an employee shortage at the moment so finding people to replace those who quit is proving very difficult. Fortunately, his employers are quick learners so when dh went to talk to them about his future at the company he was quickly offered 3 days at home 2 in the office and a 25% pay rise.

*likewise

And like wise there are people who take the piss in an office too - we all know people like that

And it's what line managers and supervisors are paid to do - manage and supervise their staff.

If they aren't hitting their targets, or performance expectation, then it's a disciplinary issue.

Some staff need micro managing, some staff can be left to their own devices. Leave everyone to their own devices and some staff will lose focus/take the piss etc.

If there's staff taking the piss then it's a management issue, whether it's in the office or not.

We went back to the office three days a week from 1 September (well, I didn’t until mid September due to Covid in the house). However I strongly suspect this coming week will be my last in the office until spring and will plan my work accordingly. I don’t mind WFH as I am lucky enough to have the space and i get two hours extra in my day with no commute - but having started a new job during lockdown it has been so lovely to be able to meet my colleagues and get to know them properly over the last few weeks. I’m glad I’ve at least had that before the winter.

I agree with you @MrsWooster
People seem to have lost the ability to see both sides of an issue in this one. I think in large part due to the ongoing uncertainty of it all. It's exhausting.
My employer was already moving to a hybrid model pre-covid and this has boosted it along. But colleagues still seem unable to see beyond their own preferences.

This is happening in my dhs workplace at the moment
Mine too. Loads of people quit to go to more flexible employers. New applicants asking how many days WFH and when they’re told zero they say they’re no longer interested in the job. So they can’t replace the staff they lost.

I've just moved jobs and this was one of the reasons. My trust stopped all wfh in April, I did one a day a week and was happy with this no issues with my work. I now work for a different trust and am expected in 1 day a week but if I fancy more I can go in. It's made a difference already, I work hard at home but at 5pm my evenings mine and any travelling stress is gone.