What do you think should happen?

[Jourdain11]

Rather than, "we're going to lockdown again, aren't we?" I'm interested to know what people think should happen.

I think we should avoid lockdown at all costs. I'm also not in favour of restrictions being brought in, unless they are ones where it is clear that the benefits broadly outweigh the negatives.

If we need to have mandatory mask-wearing in public settings, proper masks should be provided at a set rate or free of charge. This would be expensive, but IMO would be a better use of funds than endless asymptomatic testing.

I do think that ultimately, asymptomatic testing needs to stop at some point. I'm not sure cases are such a useful way of measuring the impact of Covid any more and it creates a lot of public anxiety.

I also think that Covid has exposed a lot of health inequalities and these need to be addressed, so that the population can generally be in better health. Social prescribing is a good idea, but it isn't used widely or effectively enough.

I am against lockdown, closing school and work from home orders.

I am also against weird, pointless and ill-thought-out measures, like substantial meals, etc.!

I would be on board with localised restrictions if they were necessary.

I have to laugh when I see people posting things like

No school closures ever again. Never.

Many schools have been partially or fully closed this week, due to a lack of staff.

A much, much larger number are not delivering 'normal' education - ie with the right staff teaching the right groups, with the right support staff in place. TAs are taking classes, teachers are teaching combined classes or supervising more than 1 class at the same time. 1;1 support staff are absent or deployed elsewhere, significantly impacting the learning of not only the child they are normally with but also the remainder of the class.

It isn't a choice between 'schools operating as normal' and 'return to lockdown home schooling'. Normal operation isn't possible at the moment, or not in a sustainable way - it might look OK from the outside, or even be OK for a few weeks, but it's not properly normal. The choice is between endless, unplanned, make-it-up-as-you-gp-along disruption, or something more planned and orderly.

In normal times, some schools close every year - for norovirus, for flu, for burst water mains or electricity outages, for elections. Sop demanding that none close ever again is laughable.

I've just bought private health care insurance. I think it's a good idea for those who can afford it to do so. I'd rather do my bit to reduce pressure on the NHS by using private healthcare rather than restrict my life again.

I’ve got it through work but unfortunately it doesn’t cover anything pre existing so anything to do with my back isn’t covered. It came in very handy when I had gallstones though! My problem will be if I leave, which I’m considering, as I won’t be able to carry on paying for it myself

Nothing!

Out of interest OP, what do you think should happen if hospitals get full again?

For example, A&E and general wards and ICU have a significant amount of COVID cases, to the point where they can't take more of any cases. How should they prioritise?

Should they prioritise already scheduled things like cancer treatments and Operations, at the risk of being unable to take road traffic accidents and heart attacks or should they keep some availability for the above at the risk of cancer patients (and such)?

I'm interested to see how others would prioritise. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer though.

Nothing. Think masks are largely a waste of time too.
If anything at all it should be a planned firebreak lockdown end of November for ten days/ Two weeks in which home socialising is banned and it is enforced. But as it hasn’t been planned then it’s too late. Sick of endless rule changes at the last minute.
It’s pretty obvious that it is spread largely in schools, offices and homes. Think pubs and restaurants should be left alone.
Also think the unvaccinated should be refused hospital beds ( unless the medically can’t be vaccinated). That would solve the problem of the nhs being overwhelmed. But I know that would never happen unfortunately,

@RacketeerRalph

Out of interest OP, what do you think should happen if hospitals get full again?

For example, A&E and general wards and ICU have a significant amount of COVID cases, to the point where they can't take more of any cases. How should they prioritise?

Should they prioritise already scheduled things like cancer treatments and Operations, at the risk of being unable to take road traffic accidents and heart attacks or should they keep some availability for the above at the risk of cancer patients (and such)?

I'm interested to see how others would prioritise. I don't think there's a right or wrong answer though.

I had a thread deleted the other day for suggesting whether we should consider prioritising non-Covid illnesses over Covid where the Covid patient wasn't vaccinated... I'm not sure that's right or feasible by the way, but the mere suggestion caused visceral outrage!

@cantkeepawayforever

Many schools have been partially or fully closed this week, due to a lack of staff.

True, but once they're past their 10 day isolation the vast majority of teachers and pupils will be back, and Covid's over for that school for the rest of the year.

If anything at all it should be a planned firebreak lockdown end of November for ten days/ Two weeks in which home socialising is banned and it is enforced.

Firstly it could never be enforced sufficiently, and secondly, you would just delay things by a few weeks... pretty pointless.

Also think the unvaccinated should be refused hospital beds ( unless the medically can’t be vaccinated). That would solve the problem of the nhs being overwhelmed. But I know that would never happen unfortunately,

Careful... I suggested something along the same lines but milder and was set upon like by the MN equivalent of a pack of rabid starving wolves!

If anything at all it should be a planned firebreak lockdown end of November for ten days/ Two weeks in which home socialising is banned and it is enforced

Firstly not then as I have a UK holiday booked at the beginning of December and I’d very much like to go.

Secondly, if it was to happen how will it be enforced? Will the police be banging on the door demanding to come in and check who’s in my home? The police forces are so stretched as it is that I’d rather they were able to concentrate on real crime

Unless we are all wearing the high grade n95 masks instead of just wearing pretty Boden prints of fabric over our faces then I really don't see the point.

... even if the police banged on your door, you could just lie and say you were essentially caring for a vulnerable person, unless it was a mass rave or something.

About the hospital beds: well, I think that firstly many people in hospital "with Covid" are actually in hospital for other reasons and happen to have Covid. Secondly, every year there are capacity issues in certain hospitals and the usual processes would have to be followed in the event of this occurring due to Covid: diverting to another hospital if there is an A&E capacity issue, cancelling or delayed elective surgeries if needs be. I don't think you can go down the road of denying treatment based on vaccination, not when it's still okay for drunks and brawlers to turn up to A&E. You wouldn't deny someone chemo for lung cancer because they were a smoker. You wouldn't deny someone treatment for psychosis because they'd spent years off their face on all types of substances. Same rules for all...

Nothing. Although I’d love to see some decent research done on effectiveness of masks taking into account how people actually wear them - that would be using the same one multiple times, having gaps around them, multiple touching of the mask and faces and of course removing them on public transport to eat/drink (because the virus knows to stay away at that point).

@Arrowheart

Unless we are all wearing the high grade n95 masks instead of just wearing pretty Boden prints of fabric over our faces then I really don't see the point.

Agreed. And they could be provided, if not free, for standard prescription charge - meaning those who have payment exemptions would also be exempt from mask payment.

Unless we are all wearing the high grade n95 masks

Would people want this? How long for?

@Timescale

It cannot seriously be being suggested that we force a huge number of people to stay in their homes so that we can live a more normal life!

Why should they have to stay home?

Quite. And how exactly is it proposed that my single mum colleague who is recovering from cancer should shield, when her children are in school?

@Arrowheart

Unless we are all wearing the high grade n95 masks instead of just wearing pretty Boden prints of fabric over our faces then I really don't see the point.

It’s FFP2, not N95, unless you’re in the USA.

Out of interest OP, what do you think should happen if hospitals get full again?

What do you mean, if? They are already overwhelmed.

@WiseUpJanetWeiss there’s a really interesting thread full of hcp’s discussing the situation at the moment and if you have a read you will see that most hospitals don’t have overwhelming numbers of covid patients but they all have huge backlogs of patients well enough to leave but who have nowhere to go because the social care system is such a mess. If they want to clear hospitals so they can run a proper service this winter it seems to me they need to open up their glorious nightingale hospitals staffed by medical students and volunteers and move all of the well patients out until more permanent measures are in place for them.

Pinksparklypussycat that was my point. If we had a set lockdown date that we all knew about in advance then it wouldn’t leave people s plans in tatters.
Perhaps we need one every autumn to stop viruses in their tracks. After all hospitals getting overwhelmed in winter is not a new thing.

Apart from that manoeuvre, I’m in agreement with all those acknowledging that covid doesn’t affect all ages the same and that high numbers of cases working their way around non-vulnerable is not the end of the world. As others have said, it will burn out quicker if we stop putting it on pause.

[quote Lostinacloud]@WiseUpJanetWeiss there’s a really interesting thread full of hcp’s discussing the situation at the moment and if you have a read you will see that most hospitals don’t have overwhelming numbers of covid patients but they all have huge backlogs of patients well enough to leave but who have nowhere to go because the social care system is such a mess. If they want to clear hospitals so they can run a proper service this winter it seems to me they need to open up their glorious nightingale hospitals staffed by medical students and volunteers and move all of the well patients out until more permanent measures are in place for them.[/quote]
Hospitals are overwhelmed. Doesn’t matter what with - they are overwhelmed.

You clearly know nothing about healthcare or the Nightingale hospitals if you think that’s an implementable solution.

@Jourdain11 I'd say where we are less than 5% are not in for COVID but positive. It's overwhelming those coming in sick with COVID. However we are suffering due to the government awarding a testing contract to an unaccredited company then drying for weeks that there was a problem with their results

I also think we should do nothing from now on.

I think the more we meddle the more problems we cause.

Lockdowns create waves.

Masks do nothing for most people. Although I think they exacerbate existing problems and increase bacterial and fungal diseases.

Vaccines create a whole host of other problems/ side effects. My family that has been vaccinated (including myself) has suffered their worst ever months of health since the vaccines. Those who have caught Covid have got it badly.

Family members who I was furious with for not being vaccinated have all avoided Covid completely.

Hence why I think our man made interventions and controlling of this pandemic are actually making it a lot worse.

Hospitals are overwhelmed. Doesn’t matter what with - they are overwhelmed

It really does matter with what. Because if it’s not Covid patients that are overwhelming hospitals we most certainly should not be locking down. Not in the name of COVID. If it does need to happen it should be in the name of Government’s reckless incompetence and Austerity.