Imposing restrictions in school again? PHE letter to Local Authority

[kessiebird]

We live in one Local Authority (A). My DD attends school over the border in neighbouring LA (B) , my DS attends a specialist secondary school in yet another LA (C). All within 20 mins drive or 30 mins on the bus, it's not as bad as it sounds!

Yesterday neighboring LA (B) , on the basis of PHE advice, wrote out to both my DDs primary and her feeder secondary, to ask them to reimpose some restrictions. Secondary school tour after half term is cancelled and no nativity at primary. Letter on secondary school website tightening up all measures in that school. Nothing from my DS's school in LA (C).

Is this just one LA, or did anyone else get school letters starting to reimpose restrictions?

Did a face to face tour of a secondary in LA (A) last week but the secondary feeder school in LA(B) is DD's first choice. I really wanted to go and visit. Wondering if I'm BU and this is happening country wide? Or if its worth writing to LA (B)?

Yesterday the school letters felt familiarly depressing 😵

@Brickskithouse. Sorry, I’ll try to address your points then.

if cases are high enough to be a concern for PHE, I would bring mask wearing in classrooms too. This could then be removed at a point when cases in the school drop again - perhaps a PHE set level? This is a personal viewpoint but I would have kept mask wearing for secondary aged children anyway, even if it was just moving round the school. I understand this is just my preference though.

I think ‘bubbles’ only work if other things are done, so at the moment, I would agree that closing activities is useless - but that doesn’t mean it shouldn’t happen. So for me, if PHE are concerned enough about numbers of cases (again at a set percentage of the school community), I would not allow children into schools if they have immediate family who have tested positive (most come down with it eventually), would limit bus travel/‘bubble’ bus travel/ensure masks are worn and would definitely stop breakfast clubs and after-school activities as this is where children are mixing with this from other year groups. Then the ‘bubbles’ as they are in school have more chance of working. At the moment they are useless.

In my opinion, ‘learning to live with it’ is going to involve being able to swap to and from these restrictions if and when cases reach a certain level in a school. If they are ‘good to go’ at when a number of cases are reached, it should become like a well-oiled machine.

We also had many Covid cases in the summer term. Many of those people (students and teachers) have been reinfected - so about five months later. Some children have now had Covid three times - I don’t know if this is accurate but someone on another thread mentioned that reinfections are not included in the official data. So all in all, we had a quarter of children absent at one point last half term and I am really hoping that this will give us a bit of immunity until March/April time. Unfortunately I think trying to ignore Covid’s impact on communities like schools is not a valid response and we need to properly adapt and not just aim for 2019 norms just yet.

I would also like ‘guidance’ to be much clearer!

[quote Brickskithouse]@CarrieBlue don't you think kids should be allowed to feel that life is normal though? At least in school?[/quote]
Frankly, no because living through a pandemic is not ‘normal’ and pretending that we can do all we normally do with no consequence is more damaging. After school clubs are not a right.

@Brickskithouse
I don’t think we can pretend to children that this is normal yet. You are lying to them and they aren’t stupid. And if we keep up the pretence of normality, it is just going to take us longer to get back to actually being normal.

After school activities are funny ones. Outside (football, rugby) seems to be less of a problem but changing rooms are an issue. Art, drama, dance and other inside activities definitely contributed to spreading Covid. Again, we need to adapt whilst cases are high in a school

@BustopherPonsonbyJones yeah I can see much more sense in what you're saying and those stronger measures would bring school cases down much more quickly when applied as and when needed. I am surprised at your high level of reinfection though as its estimated only 1-2% of current infections are reinfections I believe.

@CarrieBlue I really don't agree that we should take experiences away from children if they are no more risky than the rest of the school day just to signal that we are not 'pretending'.

@Brickskithouse

Also I would love to know how many kids who caught covid in school got it from someone they brushed past in the corridor. I would suspect not many.

Presumably it's lots of people chatting as they jostle down the crowded corridors rather than brushing past that is the problem ?

@Brickskithouse - Since the decision to impose restrictions in schools comes from PHE who are experts in public health then you can agree or disagree but it will happen regardless. Nothing is ‘taken away’ since after school clubs are a bonus and is obviously more risky mixing with an ever widening range of people. You may be willing to increase your personal risk by running clubs (do you?), I am not and am glad that both I nor my children are afforded even a small amount of extra protection.

I know it will happen anyway @CarrieBlue I simply think it's a shame that children still miss out in this way, particularly as a majority have already been infected. Very much is actually taken away when extracurricular is removed, particularly for those whose parents cannot finance other afterschool activities. I would like to understand the cost/ benefit. That's all.

Of course it’s a shame, but that doesn’t mean it’s not the right thing to do.

I think clubs should be limited to 2 year groups or say under 100 kids mixing.
Weve had cass in guides/scouts and brownies this last week. Previously they were often outside but have been inside about 2w. At minimum to leaders and helpers should be in masks.
I also wouldnt have parents in listening to readers.
We went to a theme park with many inside queues - may explain why london is quite low now...

The effect of not isolating infected can be seen in the high rates in the sw.
Children do school and before and after then maybe 3 clubs each.
Then you have school swimming lessons.
And now halloween parties. It is a lot of mixing. And most upper primary are going to each others houses frequently.

@carrieblue where is the evidence that on the balance of cost/ benefit that it's the right thing to do? It isn't the right thing just because you say so or the wrong thing because I say so.

@Brickskithouse - I agree, my opinion and yours count for nothing but PHE have decided it is the right thing so that’s what will hapoen

And I’m assuming that they have ‘the evidence of balance of cost/ benefit’ to help their decision.

Btw, which after school club are you running?

It's easier to treat them all activities the same when in reality netball is going be less risky than choir practice. Having some activities running but not others opens the school to parental nagging that their activity should happen and after the last 18 months I can see why school don't want to have to justify whether or not each after school activity can happen.

@carrieblue I'd like to know what the evidence is. As I've said.
I don't teach any extracurricular clubs. I teach in a large college in an area of very high urban deprivation. I know how much good work we do to open up wider opportunities to our young people and how much they value those opportunities. How much they have missed out on. I am extrapolating to schools. If I worked in school I would happily deliver extracurricular activities, just as my own DCs teachers are doing.

No change yet but one school already had masks in communal areas

Full co curricular still going, just looking back at pp

@Brickskithouse - so fully vaccinated (or have at least offered) students? Quite a different situation in schools.

My LA has brought back isolation for pupils (5 days and a PCR before return) if there's a case in the house. I can see the logic but think yet again children are facing harsher restrictions that thr general public. So Mr/Ms X can go the pub etc if there's a case in their house hut yet again children miss out on education. It feels the same as in the summer when bubbles were bursting all over the place but everywhere else people were at Wembley, Wimbledon etc.

Carrie sixth form students may be partly vaccinated yes or previously infected in line with most other children and young people, as I've already said

We had open evening cancelled due to high cases.

High number of students and teachers caught covid.

They are back in masks in lessons aswell as corridors cases are coming down in school.

@MrsDeaconClaybourne

My LA has brought back isolation for pupils (5 days and a PCR before return) if there's a case in the house. I can see the logic but think yet again children are facing harsher restrictions that thr general public. So Mr/Ms X can go the pub etc if there's a case in their house hut yet again children miss out on education. It feels the same as in the summer when bubbles were bursting all over the place but everywhere else people were at Wembley, Wimbledon etc.

Reading this I’m glad we’ve had it now. Do dc still have to do it if they’ve had Covid recently?

This is what happens when the ‘great’ British public decide, along with the government who (let’s face it, do what the public want) that they are going to pretend the pandemic is over. Anyone moaning on this thread who chooses to no longer wear a mask and is going into crowded spaces deserves everyone’s contempt. Your selfishness has contributed to why children are missing out. Well done.

No, if you've had it you don't have to as you're not supposed to test for 90 days. We've had it recently too - in fact the change was brought in while I was off.

Our high school sent a letter on Thursday from the local director of Public Health asking for all secondary age children to go back into masks after HT and for schools to seriously reconsider school trips, gatherings and parents evenings 😪😪😪

@Brickskithouse

Carrie sixth form students may be partly vaccinated yes or previously infected in line with most other children and young people, as I've already said

Case numbers are highest in 10-14 year olds right now, far lower and falling in 15-24 year olds. Not the same situation in colleges as schools right now.