1 in 10 students with COVID

[catchingzzzeds]

The secondary school I work at now has 1 in 10 students and 10 teaching staff at home with COVID. We started the week with 65 cases and today we have over 100.
Why are the government not helping us? If we could bring back masks and bubbles we could at least stand a chance of containing the spread. I also think advising that whole households isolate if a family member tests positive would help too.
We are finding that siblings are testing positive a week after the first household case.
Roll on half term, here's hoping it acts a bit of a circuit breaker.

The school have now said they are requesting students wear masks after half term, they're also reinstating the one way systems and cancelling year group assemblies and staff meetings for the foreseeable.
I'm grateful and I'm hoping this will go someway in limiting the spread.

@catchingzzzeds

The school have now said they are requesting students wear masks after half term, they're also reinstating the one way systems and cancelling year group assemblies and staff meetings for the foreseeable. I'm grateful and I'm hoping this will go someway in limiting the spread.

It will just drag things out... It's hardly going to be enough to stop Covid in its tracks.

@Warhertisuff possibly. Although slowing the spread may help with staffing, there are no supply staff available and the next step would be closing to certain year groups on different days.
3 staff are on their second bout of COVID so I do question the immunity argument.

@PuzzledObserver well I'd kind of assume Mistlewoeandwhine and her partner are not actually genetically related except via their children. Truth is, reinfection really isnt that rare.

So what? How many are actually poorly despite cases? The vast majority of those teens will have a cold. Re infection will result in even milder symptoms each time.

The community has been vaccinated with a very marginal decline is efficacy. Boosters are now being given to the elderly and CEV, so basically who cares?

The Zoe app blog this week was talking about antibodies. They have been conducting a study and apparently 20% of people who have had confirmed covid don't develop antibodies. These people are at risk from reinfection.

@Treblebass

So what? How many are actually poorly despite cases? The vast majority of those teens will have a cold. Re infection will result in even milder symptoms each time.

The community has been vaccinated with a very marginal decline is efficacy. Boosters are now being given to the elderly and CEV, so basically who cares?

The families of the CEV students who can't yet get their booster care. The two staff members trying to work and support their partners undergoing cancer treatment care. The CEV staff who can't yet have their booster care. The GCSE students who are missing school care. The GCSE teachers who are too ill to work remotely care. Those of us who are carers for elderly parents care.

Yes, for the vast majority it is a mild illness but we can't forget about the people for whom this situation is a nightmare.

I don't disagree that to a large extent we just need to get on with it now but I just want the government to protect those who need protection.
Perhaps shielding those at risk until the booster rollout is actually properly underway.
They could state they're acknowledging GCSE class absence and will be opening discussions with the exam boards. Bubbles returning to school so the spread is more controlled, therefore limiting the numbers out to a more manageable level for teaching.

@Porcupineintherough - Truth is, reinfection really isnt that rare.

How “not that rare”, though? 1%? 10%? 50%?

Such “official” statistics as I’ve been able to find suggest that reinfections are a very small proportion of total infections, but according to MN, every man and his dog has had it three times, each worse than the last.

I’m currently doing a straw poll on another platform. So far, out of 91 responses, 20 people have had Covid (12 before vaccination and 8 after), 71 have not and no-one says they have had it more than once.

We are still learning how re-infection works.

One suggestion is that "unvaccinated individuals should expect to be reinfected with Covid-19 every 16 months, on average".

www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/19/without-covid-19-jab-reinfection-may-occur-every-16-months-say-scientists

Such “official” statistics as I’ve been able to find suggest that reinfections are a very small proportion of total infections, but according to MN, every man and his dog has had it three times, each worse than the last.

Ironically those who are trying to emphasise how so many are being re-infected a second or third time seem to be exaggerating as part of an argument for more restrictions when, actually, if what they are saying is true, it supports precisely the opposite argument in my opinion. If Covid infects most people after a few months of having it, then the only restrictions that could possibly work are Wuhan-style lockdowns forever; and very few want that.

@catchingzzzeds

Oh yes because schools are absolutely full of CEV staff aren’t they? I think people have mistaken CV for CEV, there’s a whole world of difference between the two. Truly CEV people are vulnerable to the slightest of infection so common sense tells you this wouldn’t be the best environment for someone who was CEV to work in. CV, well that encompasses a whole load of conditions that the vaccine is still holding up against. School staff have been jabbed twice now which is adequate protection.

GCSE students will be off for ONE isolation period if they catch covid, not multiple times like last year. GCSE staff will not ALL be off at the same time, there is a thing called an incubation period.

This is mumsnet though where everyone catches covid at least 6 times throughout the winter.

Jeez.

[quote Treblebass]@catchingzzzeds

Oh yes because schools are absolutely full of CEV staff aren’t they? I think people have mistaken CV for CEV, there’s a whole world of difference between the two. Truly CEV people are vulnerable to the slightest of infection so common sense tells you this wouldn’t be the best environment for someone who was CEV to work in. CV, well that encompasses a whole load of conditions that the vaccine is still holding up against. School staff have been jabbed twice now which is adequate protection.

GCSE students will be off for ONE isolation period if they catch covid, not multiple times like last year. GCSE staff will not ALL be off at the same time, there is a thing called an incubation period.

This is mumsnet though where everyone catches covid at least 6 times throughout the winter.

Jeez.[/quote]
As a CEV person, I am not "vulnerable to the slightest of infection", whatever you imagine that means, but I am at risk of covid.

When we were in lockdown, I was liaising with 2 senior members of staff from 1 school and a member of the SLT from another school and they were all having to shield as well (though normally working fulltime)

Yes, there are plenty of CEV (and CV) staff in schools. Also, quite a few older teachers (who are also at risk).

@Warhertisuff

Such “official” statistics as I’ve been able to find suggest that reinfections are a very small proportion of total infections, but according to MN, every man and his dog has had it three times, each worse than the last.

Ironically those who are trying to emphasise how so many are being re-infected a second or third time seem to be exaggerating as part of an argument for more restrictions when, actually, if what they are saying is true, it supports precisely the opposite argument in my opinion. If Covid infects most people after a few months of having it, then the only restrictions that could possibly work are Wuhan-style lockdowns forever; and very few want that.

The possibility of re-infection means that herd immunity really won't work (but regular boosters might.)

With mild measures like sometimes wearing masks in crowded indoor spaces, distancing where possible, etc.

Why do you think we would need Wuhan lockdowns forever? That doesn't compute.

@herecomesthsun

I’ve read the CEV list on the NHS site and they are ALL very vulnerable to many, many infections not just covid. Older staff in schools are no more at risk than many older people currently in front facing roles and we now have a vaccine.

Please do read the difference between CV and CEV.

Of course everyone on mumsnet (and all teachers) assume they fall into the latter category .

@herecomesthsun

But you will get milder symptoms with each re infection. We don’t get long term immunity from common colds which is the way this will eventually go.

[quote Treblebass]@herecomesthsun

But you will get milder symptoms with each re infection. We don’t get long term immunity from common colds which is the way this will eventually go.[/quote]
Milder symptoms? Not necessarily, worse subsequent episodes are well documented.

Also, some people with a lot of organ damage etc, after covid are left clinically vulnerable; lung re-infections with other pathogens can certainly cause cumulative damage so at least theoretically that's a possibility.

We are still learning about the long term effects of covid.

Bit early to be regarding it as like the common cold, where we are right now.

Oh I presume you’re one of those who will still be stamping her feet in ten years time? Which scientifically is probably still a small amount of time to study a virus.

There’s plenty of respectable literature out there confirming what I’ve said, now of course you can go and find the opposite, such is the nature of science.

Time to get on with it.

[quote Treblebass]@herecomesthsun

I’ve read the CEV list on the NHS site and they are ALL very vulnerable to many, many infections not just covid. Older staff in schools are no more at risk than many older people currently in front facing roles and we now have a vaccine.

Please do read the difference between CV and CEV.

Of course everyone on mumsnet (and all teachers) assume they fall into the latter category .[/quote]
I AM CEV myself. I know the difference between CEV and CV. No I don't fall over at the first whisper of an infection generally and I was working full time in an extremely demanding job pre covid.

I also have a medical degree thanks.

no I am not a teacher

Yes, there are quite a few vulnerable teachers in schools. As I have said, I personally was speaking to 3 of my kids teachers who were CEV. CEV can include young working people - and can include parents.

Hope that helps.

@Treblebass

Oh I presume you’re one of those who will still be stamping her feet in ten years time? Which scientifically is probably still a small amount of time to study a virus.

There’s plenty of respectable literature out there confirming what I’ve said, now of course you can go and find the opposite, such is the nature of science.

Time to get on with it.

Not stamping my feet, just correcting your assumptions

@herecomesthsun

Oh okay, that confirms it then because someone’s kids teachers aunties friends are all CEV teachers .

Thanks for clearing that up . You also have a medical degree too .

Gotta love mumsnet. A CEV medical degree person with plenty of experience with teachers.

Lol.

The possibility of re-infection means that herd immunity really won't work (but regular boosters might.)With mild measures like sometimes wearing masks in crowded indoor spaces, distancing where possible, etc.Why do you think we would need Wuhan lockdowns forever? That doesn't compute.

If reinfections really are two-a-penny and so many are becoming ill again and again every few months (they aren't but some seem to want to push this narrative to get society to "do much more"), we can't really expect numbers to reduce, ever... and occasional "mild measures" aren't really going to make enough of a dent in numbers to satisfy the "we must do all
we can to stop Covid" crowd... To remain at the levels they would be comfortable with, we really would have to adopt China's zero tolerance policy.

Few secondaries in our area have gone back to masks for students and staff.
The head teacher needs to take responsibility and take steps to try and lower cases. Probably won’t work, however he needs to have an action plan in place (masks, bubbles, ventilation, staggered starts/end times, different lunch times etc)

@Warhertisuff

The possibility of re-infection means that herd immunity really won't work (but regular boosters might.)With mild measures like sometimes wearing masks in crowded indoor spaces, distancing where possible, etc.Why do you think we would need Wuhan lockdowns forever? That doesn't compute.

If reinfections really are two-a-penny and so many are becoming ill again and again every few months (they aren't but some seem to want to push this narrative to get society to "do much more"), we can't really expect numbers to reduce, ever... and occasional "mild measures" aren't really going to make enough of a dent in numbers to satisfy the "we must do all
we can to stop Covid" crowd... To remain at the levels they would be comfortable with, we really would have to adopt China's zero tolerance policy.

if we didn't have vaccines and boosters, there would be more of an issue,

But we do.

So the mild measures, like wearing a mask in indoor crowded situations, plus boosters, go a long way towards protecting vaccinated people whose vulnerability is waning etc.

I think if we all did this it would really helo to get us through the winter (and avoid another lockdown)

helo = help

[quote Treblebass]@catchingzzzeds

Oh yes because schools are absolutely full of CEV staff aren’t they? I think people have mistaken CV for CEV, there’s a whole world of difference between the two. Truly CEV people are vulnerable to the slightest of infection so common sense tells you this wouldn’t be the best environment for someone who was CEV to work in. CV, well that encompasses a whole load of conditions that the vaccine is still holding up against. School staff have been jabbed twice now which is adequate protection.

GCSE students will be off for ONE isolation period if they catch covid, not multiple times like last year. GCSE staff will not ALL be off at the same time, there is a thing called an incubation period.

This is mumsnet though where everyone catches covid at least 6 times throughout the winter.

Jeez.[/quote]
We have three CEV teaching staff, they were all on the shielding list, one has had their booster the other two are still waiting.
Why do you think they shouldn't be protected?

A ten day incubation period is a lot of work for a GCSE student to catch up on. The teachers who are able to are teaching from home throughout their incubation but some are too unwell. The teachers in school are losing their PPA time to cover the classes of those that are sick. We are stretched to the limit. As more and more contract COVID it is more difficult to plug the gaps in missed learning. A list is sent out daily of the students that need remote learning, it is growing rapidly.