So many seem to be ill?

[Thewiseoneincognito]

I’ve lost count of the number of people I know who have this ‘mystery flu’ with coughing and classic Covid symptoms and yet seem to be testing negative on LFTs and PCRs, surely it’s not just me noticing this?

DP is now ill awaiting PCR results, I have several colleagues at work ill but all have negative PCRs and LFTs. Friends of friends all in the same situation, FB has plenty of anecdotes with the same scenario too.

Every shop or business I’ve been in today had numerous people with hacking coughs and sneezes. I appreciate there will be a surge of colds and flus as we head to autumn and winter but the cold weather hasn’t really hit yet and the people I know who have been ill the last two weeks or so are all healthy young people.

I’m wondering has Covid changed and is now undectable by the tests? It’s even more maddening that no one has a mask on hardly either but let’s leave that one for another thread.

I just find it hard to believe this sudden surge of sickness is a result of lower immunity to everyday normal illnesses and that it’s a resurgence of the common cold. I don’t remember pre-covid hearing so many hacking coughs, does anyone else?

Dd tested positive on the second PCR. I only got her tested as she had a bit of a sniffle, a headache and was tired but her brother and I had the full on cough, sore throat, fever and unwell. We tested negative 🤷🏼‍♀️ Dd's main symptom is congestion. She coughs occasionally but feels completely well. Ds and I are coughing up a storm and I feel like shit. We are waiting for repeat PCR results as I don't see how it's possible to have one positive and two negative in the same household but so many people are saying the same. The test centre thinks me being vaccinated could explain the negative result but that doesn't explain ds. It's weird.

I guess most posters here are insinuating they do work after all in lowering transmission of viruses and in that case would be the sensible choice of mitigation against Covid.

Well no. Because they're different viruses, that operate in different ways and have different degrees of infectiousness.

But in any case, the reason for fewer colds / flus last year probably had a lot more to do with actual lockdown measures being enforced and most people still wfh.

Our immunity from flu at least is down this year compared to last, as a direct result of the measures taken last year. This is problematic. Keeping ourselves 'safe' from germs isn't a good medium to long term strategy.

Where I work, they're very strict - masks must be on at all times, unless actually eating/drinking. Nine people in one area, and one in mine have gone down with somethong. Anything resembling covid/virus/bad cold, we have to do a PCR and seven days of LFTs. There's not been one positive case come out of them, so it's been put down to a nasty virus. What concerns me is the fact that we have to wear masks all the times, are encouraged to wash hands for more 60 seconds and use hand sanitizer - I know some may have met outside work, but how come it's spreading?

I think social distancing and reducing close contacts had more to do with lower levels of illnesses last year than mask wearing tbh.

I have never thought that mask wearing itself is ineffective. However, for mask wearing to work it requires everyone wearing them correctly, or at least the majority wearing them correctly. A lot of people have struggled (for whatever reason) to wear them, even more have struggled to wear them correctly.

@starfish4

Where I work, they're very strict - masks must be on at all times, unless actually eating/drinking. Nine people in one area, and one in mine have gone down with somethong. Anything resembling covid/virus/bad cold, we have to do a PCR and seven days of LFTs. There's not been one positive case come out of them, so it's been put down to a nasty virus. What concerns me is the fact that we have to wear masks all the times, are encouraged to wash hands for more 60 seconds and use hand sanitizer - I know some may have met outside work, but how come it's spreading?

Because masks reduce risks, they don’t stop it altogether. The only way to do that is to stop humans coming into contact with each other

It’s a complete myth that we get ill cos it’s ‘cold’.. otherwise, those in hot countries would never get ill. The reason we have winter bugs more prominently than summer ones is because of the way we interact during these seasons. So in summer, a higher a percentage of the population socialise outdoors, do outdoor activities and/or have windows & doors open in their houses. In winter, we close all the windows & migrate inside. So while it’s not ‘that cold’ yet in the U.K, it has been very wet & not warm enough to say eat a picnic outdoors or sit in your garden. More & more people will have moved to doing inside activities over September. And schools, colleges & unis are back. More people taking the train, bus, tube. More people back into offices.

That’s why so many illnesses are circulating.

Last Autumn & Winter, we were all WFH (the vast majority of offices remained closed despite being allowed to open), limited on numbers indoors, highly reduced capacity at sporting activities etc, gyms closed, cinemas closed etc etc.. there was even a limit on outdoor numbers meeting.

It’s literally impossible to compare this time last year.

What is this 'specific cough and sore throat'?

of course there will be a lot of cold and flu going around but it just feels like it’s everywhere at the moment which makes think there could be more to this.

It's everywhere at the moment because it's October! It's like this every single year.

It really feels like COVID has made people totally forget what winter illnesses are actually like. Colds and bugs spread like wildfire at this time of year because people spend more time in close proximity indoors - we have doors and windows closed and the heating on, so we're all breathing the same air all day long.

If you're working in an enclosed space like an office or a shop and someone comes in with a cold, the vast majority of people will also catch that cold. Some people will get away with a light sniffle, others will feel rotten for a few days and yes, some people will get totally wiped out by it and end up feeling tired and shitty for a few weeks. It's always been like that.

I swear it's like the last 18 months have wiped people's memories completely

Did we all forget that illnesses exist outside or covid?!

People are forgetting all the localised restrictions too. This time last year it was illegal to go to my mum’s house for a cup of tea.

@Bobholll

It’s a complete myth that we get ill cos it’s ‘cold’.. otherwise, those in hot countries would never get ill. The reason we have winter bugs more prominently than summer ones is because of the way we interact during these seasons. So in summer, a higher a percentage of the population socialise outdoors, do outdoor activities and/or have windows & doors open in their houses. In winter, we close all the windows & migrate inside. So while it’s not ‘that cold’ yet in the U.K, it has been very wet & not warm enough to say eat a picnic outdoors or sit in your garden. More & more people will have moved to doing inside activities over September. And schools, colleges & unis are back. More people taking the train, bus, tube. More people back into offices.

That’s why so many illnesses are circulating.

Last Autumn & Winter, we were all WFH (the vast majority of offices remained closed despite being allowed to open), limited on numbers indoors, highly reduced capacity at sporting activities etc, gyms closed, cinemas closed etc etc.. there was even a limit on outdoor numbers meeting.

It’s literally impossible to compare this time last year.

Exactly this 100%.

@peboh

Did we all forget that illnesses exist outside or covid?!

I do wonder how people could have forgotten just how rubbish colds/ flu/ norovirus can make you feel.

A few years ago I was knocked back by a chest infection. I was bed bound for weeks and it was months before I felt ‘normal’.

If I had this within the last 18 months people would be claiming Covid/ long Covid.

I am not denying that Covid/ long Covid are real, they are very much real and can be very serious for some people. However, other bugs and virus can be just as nasty for some people as well.

Unfortunately, this is just how it’s going to be now, Covid is here to stay. It will ‘eventually’ become just another virus.

Playing devils advocate here but surely if this is ‘just a cold/ flu’ and last year we didn’t see this surge it makes a point in the effectiveness of face masks?

There was a lockdown last Autumn/Winter and then tiers. People not mixing was the reason why there were fewer bugs doing the rounds, and why immunity is so low this year.

I've currently got an awful cold/cough. It's definitely not covid - I had covid at the end of August/beginning of September, so can't test again for it anyway. No coincidence that DH has just gone back to the office, albeit only one day a week because of me being CV.

The symptoms of Covid aren't exactly unique! There are no doubt many different viruses circulating now we are back to mingling as normal(ish). Even if it is actually Covid though, does it matter? People are unwell with a virus for a few days and then recover. This is the case for the vast majority, just like with other nasty viruses.

@SpringRainbow I agree. I currently have a chest infection, and it's knocked me on my arse completely.
I think we've gotten to a point where because covid symptoms are so common to so many viruses and infections, that as soon as you have one of the symptoms you've definitely got covid and a negative test can't be real. As you've said, it's just another virus to be added to a long list of viruses.

[quote tiddlysquat]@MushMonster so do you think a positive LF followed by a negative pcr likely means it's not covid ?[/quote]
Not the case anymore - read the latest news re: Public Health England, who are advising off the record that people do not trust a negative PCR after a positive LFT. There have been a spate of Covid cases where this has happened, and it's currently being investigated. (As reported by the BBC in the last 24 hours.)

I read it now indeed, from the same area mostly, so it could be issues with a particular lab?
Hopefully it will not be another variant that has gone undetected, because it seems to affect quite a lot of people indeed.
We will see, it should not take long for the answer to emerge as they are looking into it.
We are not far away from the most affected areas, and we do have a cold doing the rounds! But it seem to come with negative LFTs too, so hopefully it will only be a cold.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10075323/Self-isolate-Covid-symptoms-test-NEGATIVE-public-health-boss-warns.html

About the techniques though, the PCR is the go to because it is not really an analytical technique, but a signal amplification. What it does is to multiply the amount of RNA you have in your sample.
Then the lab will couple it with a detection test, to find out if it is covid positive or negative. If coupled with electrophoresis, or DNA sequencing, there cannot be an issue.

I’m glad they’re investigating those strange results. I’m not sure it gives sufficient evidence of what the OP possibly suspects - that there is a huge amount of covid about that is not detected via PCRs? Certainly in my own area, everyone I know who has been off work or school with negative covid tests has had negatives on both LFTs and PCRs.

It’s rotten and I was in bed for a week. Cough and high temperature but negative covid test. No idea what it was but I have never been so ill with a cold.

Autumn Fever as they tudors called it.
Not exactly new.

In other news - the cost of all this 'testing' is in the order of £6 billion (that is our taxpayers money)
As so many people are testing and not believing the results and then doing another one and then taking a PCR - all of which are 'free on the NHS ' and contributing the waste from the tests going into landfill - how are people being so fearful and lacking in common sense. A bad cold or flu is doing the rounds - if the COVID specific symptons are not there you probably don't have Covid.
Do not feed the fear - or we will never get back to normal.
I excuse those who work in areas where testing is obviously necessary - care homes, hospitals etc.

I have to do LFTs for work, I was really surprised to have a positive result when I felt absolutely fine. The next day though I felt really poorly- throat really sore, no energy as in couldn't get out of bed, fever, uncontrollable coughing. Without the positive LFT I would have just assumed a normal cold, took another and was also positive, results from PCR came back as negative. Meh.

@MushMonster

About the techniques though, the PCR is the go to because it is not really an analytical technique, but a signal amplification. What it does is to multiply the amount of RNA you have in your sample. Then the lab will couple it with a detection test, to find out if it is covid positive or negative. If coupled with electrophoresis, or DNA sequencing, there cannot be an issue.

They would need to look into the whole process though, because it isn't just the test, is it? Test results get stored and reported and delivered by software. Test are transported, stored (at some temperature or other), opened, handled, transferred to the right equipment. Humans are involved - a classic point of failure in any system. So the fundamental technique might be rock solid, but that doesn't mean the wrong result can never be delivered.