Anyone had work mates refuse to work with them?

[Chipsinthewoods]

So the new rules mean you don’t have to isolate if you are double vaccinated and have been in contact, just mask and LFTs. At my work, multiple staff members are up in arms about a staff member who is negative but has a positive case at home. Multiple people are refusing to work with her (all vaccinated but older workforce/vulnerable spouses etc)

We have a positive case now - one of my teen children (adults negative) but I am worried that there could be a domino effect. Big boss at work said they only need to know about positives and to keep testing each day before work but I am expected to work if negative.

I feel really conflicted whether I am expected to tell people so they can all walk out if they want to, fall on my sword - take unpaid time off and risk my job, or stick to my basic obligations and follow the rules quietly.

Has anyone else experienced this?

I think they need to go back to household isolation

How are they finding out? You're under no obligation to share the medical details of people you share a household with, and they have no right to ask.

If you are happy doing LFT tests then carry on doing so, they ONLY need to know if you have a positive LFT or are going for a PCR because you have symptoms. They don't need to know where you have potentially caught it from.

You have no responsibility to manage other people's anxieties.

No way would I risk a disciplinary just because older workers are scared. Let them take an unscheduled day off if they want to (they'll be taking a hell of a lot in future, as Covid isn't going anywhere!). If your workplace expects you do to daily LFTs and turn up if negative, then that is what you should do. Every workplace is different, some are asking workers to WFH if there's a +ve case in their household and others, like yours, expect their workers to follow the govt guidance.

And what @KingsleyShacklebolt said!

It's not about "managing anxieties." There are some people who are still legitimately very vulnerable to this virus despite being vaccinated, and they/their household members also have no choice but to go into work in many cases despite the very high community levels. It's not just anxiety if you are still being told by your medical team to be very careful and that COVID could be quite dangerous for you.

Obviously the current government policies around this are putting everyone in a difficult position and there are no easy answers. But at least if you inform your colleagues of your household exposure you may be able to work out a way between you to increase space/distance/ventilation etc.

I'm pregnant and have been told by my medical team to shield as much as possible. My husband can't help but work from an office and this is my biggest exposure risk. I'd certainly hope if one of colleagues had a case at home they'd be considerate and let him know so that they could take as many precautions as possible. It's the considerate and right thing to do, regardless of government policy ffs

Come on, @Whatshouldicallme. You really have no right to expect to know when someone you don't even work with has had a contact with a positive case. That's about three degrees removed - the positive case -> their contact (who has tested negative) -> your husband -> you.

And presumably, your husband and their colleague are vaccinated.

Unfortunately I can’t wfh and we are very short staffed atm. I’ve decided to speak to a senior staff member, reminding them of their duty of care towards my confidentiality, and work out something where I can work on my own to avoid contact with others. It is a little bit iffy because that goes against what the bigger boss said to do, but we might be able to style it out without ending up at loggerheads with anyone. I only had second Pfizer in aug and we all wear PPE at work. Agree with PP who said it isn’t going anywhere, this could happen to any one of us at some stage.

Come on @KingsleyShacklebolt. Obviously I don't think I have "the right" to know anything. But I do think most people are reasonable and generally considerate of others and that's all that this is.

We all know by now (surely) that one case in an office or other enclosed indoor area can easily lead to a much larger outbreak, and also that family members living together have a very good chance of infecting other family members. Testing negative means little when you are going home to an infected spouse or child day in and day out. I accept that there's always a chance one of his colleagues could pick it up on the train or out in public etc and thus not have much chance to warn colleagues they may be infected. But if they had a family member at home this would be a significantly greater risk and, yes, I do hope they'd say something out of common courtesy and morality despite the fact they don't legally need to.

I am probably luckier than most in that my husband works on a small team, he generally gets on with them, and they are aware of his situation so I do think they'd tell him.

Lots of workplaces are still being realistic and flexible in these situations and allowing people to wfh temporarily anyway. I appreciate that some aren't and I really do feel for people in a situation where they have no choice to attend a workplace that is really putting them/their family's health at risk.

@Chipsinthewoods

It's obviously not your fault at all that you've been put in this situation and it sounds like you've gone out of your way to be considerate of colleagues who may be higher risk. I hope that you are able to work something out so that you and your colleagues are all able to be comfortable.

I think cautious covid people would find the new rules a bit punchy and that it is their responsibility to educate themselves and decide ahead of time how they might act.

These 'very worried' people coming out of the woodwork in the face of actual people with emotions having covid rather than deciding ahead of time their own actions are doing my head in.

Happened to us in a school. I was super open about dd having covid, the rest of us getting pcrs, isolating until results and then sending kids back in once negative (as per agreement with head) and massively judged the dicks that phoned in the office when my kids came back.

covid cautious even.

What’s hard here is these older people probably genuinely have more risk even if double vaxxed. Imagine they have a partner at home with cancer or lower immunity. For them getting Covid looks different and the risk is far higher. I have also read if we contract Covid and test between days 0-5 we can test as a false negative. So it’s a difficult one.

So they need to decide ahead of time what they are going to do, make sure they are informed and act accordingly. The people following the guidance shouldn't be made to feel like the bad one. The onus is now on the CV or cautious to protect themselves.

If they don’t like the risk, they can stay home unpaid.

Just don’t tell them about the positive case. Covid is here to stay. Pretty much anyone who can be vaccinated has been. People are going to have to either bite the bullet and go back to normal, or become hermits, at their own option.

@KleineDracheKokosnuss how can the chose to stay home unpaid if they dont know the OP has a positive case at home?

OP you are NBU to not want to unilaterally stay at home if youve been told to go in but your colleagues are NBU to have concerns. The truth is, if they are infected by you and suffer long term consequences your employer wont give a shit, they'll likely just replace them.

@Porcupineintherough no idea but can’t say I’m too bothered. If they don’t want to catch it, they should just become hermits now.

I would normally advocate for telling them, but considering the hysterical way the zero Covid crowd treat those who’ve been near any infection, I’d rather not give them the opportunity.

It’s endemic. It will be here next year, the year after, the year after that, etc etc etc. If you’re immunised you’re good to go. If you’re not, you either need to get immunised or work out how you plan to survive in the modern world without ever going near people. For the latter, an in person job probably won’t be an option.

@KleineDracheKokosnuss dont assume that everybody who really, really doesnt want to catch covid has no experience of it. Ive had it twice and am still suffering the after effects which in my case include perminent kidney and ? perminent neurological damage. I dont make antibodies to coronavirus so accept I will likely catch it again but I dont have to court it.

@Chipsinthewoods

I guess the balance of risk from the government is on a population level - not individual risk. They want to keep enough people out of hospital and the economy going while my colleagues want to protect individuals they deeply care about. The rules don’t care about the individual, the employer cares about making money within the law, and we are all stuck in the middle.

You have absolutely nailed it in terms of describing how the rules work! Anything you are able to do in order to reduce the risk of transmission to colleagues will, I am sure, be greatly appreciated by everyone around you.

The thing is there are lots of people out there still who are, for example, adults who can't develop an immune response to the vaccine, who are just as at risk as at the start. More so, actually as Delta is more severe and more transmissible.

Everyone seems to have forgotten about them of course or not care if they die, one or the other. But I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone who is a transplant recipient or someone who's having chemotherapy for cancer or a host of other things to not want to work closely with someone with a positive case in their household (not forever, just for 10 days). That seems eminently sensible and reasonable, and frankly a failure of duty of the company to not pose unnecessary risk to its staff not to facilitate protecting those vulnerable members of staff.

Though you did say you're wearing PPE so I guess there is that?

At our school we don’t even get told, in fact I think they try to hide from us who is actually off with covid!

I do feel for all of your colleagues in this situation. If you have to work, you have to work but there's a big chance the people coming in will test positive later.

My workplace is insisting that anyone with a positive case in the household works from home and if they can't, they stay at home on full pay anyway. We're at a university and they don't want an outbreak among the students. Most of them are from overseas and away from family and a familiar medical system. We have support available but getting them to access it is hard. My colleagues with children have been the worst hit and almost all of them have ended up with covid so I think it's the right approach.

@KleineDracheKokosnuss

I am fully vaccinated and my medical team are still telling me that I am not good to go and need to avoid COVID until my baby is born. What advice do you have for me?

I'd be more than happy to disclose to colleagues if there was a positive case in my household, the onus would be on them what course of action to take next. I cant wfh and would not be paid if I didn't come in, so whilst I'm sympathetic to others medical needs I'm not prepared to cause my family financial harm for the sake of others health. That may sound harsh but it's the reality of the situation for many I suspect. I'd be more than happy to stay away and be paid of course, but as that's unlikely to happen I'll be in work as required.

[quote Whatshouldicallme]@KleineDracheKokosnuss

I am fully vaccinated and my medical team are still telling me that I am not good to go and need to avoid COVID until my baby is born. What advice do you have for me?[/quote]
What do you expect others to do for you? If your DH work colleagues are contacts of someone positive, do you think they should stay home unpaid to avoid a possible subsequent contact to you? Do you expect them to tell your DH so he can either WFH if possible or take unpaid leave himself to avoid possible transmission?
You or your dh could come into contact with close contacts in many different circumstances that you may never even realise, the best way you can both avoid covid is to effectively both shield until after the birth by wfh and getting food deliveries etc, if that's not possible I'm not sure what others can do for you if they're just going about their daily business. I appreciate its a pretty shit situation to be in.

@Wellbythebloodyhell

Have you actually read my previous comments? I have never said I've expected others to stay home unpaid or otherwise for myself or my husband. I don't even know where you've got this idea.

I've said I think it would be common courtesy and the morally right thing to do to inform colleagues if someone has a family member at home with covid.

If my husband knows, he can choose to do something about it himself (talk to his own manager, try to WFH himself, take leave, wear more ppe etc). If he doesn't know because someone lacks the decency to warn him then he can't do anything about it.

We do shield in basically every other area of life. Not because we want to but because it's what's been advised medically. As I said previously, our only real exposure risk is my husband's office because like many other he needs to go in. But, if he knows about a higher level of risk on a given day/week he can try to work round it.