12+ vaccine - science

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I have decided that I prefer for dd 12 to wait with the Covid vaccine until she is a bit older and there is more data on risks and benefits on vaccinating children her age. I am particularly concerned about possible side effects on her developing body. I've had massive issues with my cycle after 2X AZ, cycles became 3 days longer for the next 2 cycles, went back to normal, had the second jab and cycle became 3 days longer again. I had the most horrendous period pain in each of these longer cycles and clots that were unusually large. I already tend to have clots anyway but these ones were huge. I also bled for more days than usual.

We are very pro vaccine and all my dc have had their childhood vaccines and also get the flu one each year (as do DH and I).

She's interested in science and will be surprised to find out that we are not supporting this vaccine for chairmen at the moment.

Could any posters who know more about the science explain

• why does vaccinating 12+ children protect society, when people can still get and pass on covid whether they are vaccinate or not

• any reliable data / research on potential impact on women's hormones, cycles etc.

I'd like to have a proper conversation about this with her but would like to explain with facts rather than gut feeling and lived experience.

Many thanks in advance!

I have boys and don't have links to the data you want, but I think a wait and see approach is sensible given your concerns.

Not having a vaccine immediately doesn't mean she can't have one later in the year/next year.

It all seems very rushed, and I have concerns particularly for my 12 year old. If he was a few months younger the W. H.O. would be recommending he wasn't vaccinated.

What does your daughter think?

Very interesting post. I am in early exactly the same position. We, well really she, have decided against at this stage. I would like to see more facts and figures also as it definitely isn’t a no forever.

- why does vaccinating 12+ children protect society, when people can still get and pass on covid whether they are vaccinate or not

"Evidence suggests a single dose cuts the risk of catching the Delta variant (if you come into contact with it) by about 55%. You're also less likely to become very sick or pass it on."

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57273875

So, yes, you can still catch it and pass it on but it's MUCH less likely if you are vaccinated with at least one dose.

This study is about fully vaccinated people, but it explains that you are less likely to pass it on when vaccinated due to having a lower viral load therefore shedding less virus.

In answer to your first question, although vaccinated people can still get it and spread it, they are less likely to get it and spread it and that is beneficial for society. And for the individual child it means they are less likely to need to take 2 weeks off school with it at some point.

It was the same with the smallpox vaccination, you could still catch small pox if vaccinated but typically it was less likely and less severe. And obviously now completely eradicated thanks to the vaccination.

As regards evidence of safety in kids I’m hoping that soon we’ll have more evidence from countries like Canada who started vaccinating their 12+ year olds about 5 months ago. I took the vaccination while pregnant but only once the data came out from all the pregnant women who had been vaccinated in the US and Israel.

Does anybody know if the rules will change for this age group with regards to isolating due to close contact? At the moment they wouldn't have to isolate due to their age. I'm wondering if this age group will have to isolate after contact with a positive case if they haven't been vaccinated?

On the other hand ... kids have been exposed to Covid for 18 months plus now. How many of them have had Covid symptomatically? Going by my kids and their schools the majority were having 2 weeks off school because of whole class isolation - not because they were actually ill.

I work in a primary school too and don't know any kids who have had symptoms of Covid and then isolated. There's plenty of coughs etc around but nobody ever seems worried enough to test for Covid.

So the two week off thing doesn't swing it for me. I feel like my kids would've had Covid by now if they were going to get it. In fact they probably have had it and so don't need the vaccine.

I'm wondering if this age group will have to isolate after contact with a positive case if they haven't been vaccinated?

If this happens it will be discrimination and totally contradicts the message being given to us now that this is voluntary.

I can see where you are coming from and wonder the same - although there have been so many children vaccinated now I would have thought we would have a trickle through of some issues like the hormones (I also had periods triggered despite going through menopause).
Interestingly, my sister lives in a part of Australia which doesn't have covid and doesn't even let other Australians there to visit. Her 15 year old son was vaccinated yesterday. Australia, Europe, American have all started vaccinating children so I hope someone can provide you with the research you are looking for.

Regarding what to say to your daughter : I didn’t want to make my son nervous by telling him we were not sure that the vaccine is safe (incase we do decide to give him the vaccine later down the line)
so I just told him that the covid virus would prob be mild if he caught it so we feel he doesn’t need the vaccine yet, but if levels locally get much higher this winter then we may change our minds .
I have always told him not to be worried about him catching the virus as I didn’t want him to worry. He seemed fine about that plan .
Once he gets his letter inviting him for vaccine I will do some more research, but I think we may wait a month or two before letting him the vaccine and see how the take up is among everyone else and if any issues arise .

If this happens it will be discrimination and totally contradicts the message being given to us now that this is voluntary.

I completely agree with you- but I don't necessarily hold much hope that it won't happen anyway, even if it's not for a while yet!

Oh well - I like homeschooling and my kids like an excuse to have 2 weeks off, so it will work positively for us if it happens.

why does vaccinating 12+ children protect society, when people can still get and pass on covid whether they are vaccinate or not

I find that a misleading statement. Vaccination reduces the chances of onward transmission in several ways: it's still a primarily droplet-spread disease. Vaccines reduce symptom severity. Fewer symptoms = fewer droplets. Vaccines reduce chance of detectable infection -> less risk of being forced to isolate & miss in-person education. At moment (I think?) vaccinated people don't have to self-isolate following exposure, so less risk of missing in-person education. If you knew you had tried to prevent yourself being infectious, you'd feel better if you ever accidentally passed covid onto someone else, so vaccinated status is a reassurance to many. Those are the most likely benefits to the individual age 12-15.

any reliable data / research on potential impact on women's hormones, cycles etc.

Reliable data Only in the RCTs. I'm glad to be corrected, from summaries I can find, Although the AZ (or Janssen) jab produced more general malaise, the RCTs found that women who got placebo vaccines were no less/more likely to have menstrual problems than women who got real vaccines (any of the vaccines, pretty sure). Everything claimed since about menstrual cycle effects is anecdotal due to no proper control group.

Ordinary "large" size RCTs can't find very rare side effects like the myocarditis or blood clots, but menstrual problems at the rates claimed -- they should have easily found those. The vaccine trials have all been Huge. There is a hypothesised mechanism why womb or heart might respond as alleged, but again, no reason why the trials wouldn't have picked up this alleged rampant side effect.

-A Scientist