What's it like in London?

[Violet9]

My dh is planning on going to a reunion from his old workplace in October at a pub or bar in central London, I'm CV and it's the first time he's done anything like this since the pandemic started, first due to me shielding and since that ended just because of the risk where I'm CV and in rubbish health (different chronic conditions, a physical disability and poor immunity leave me mostly housebound, sometimes bedbound).

I'm getting pretty anxious about it the closer it gets, he'll obviously be in a public, likely busy place being a Friday night, with a large group of people (about 25) all evening, and he also needs to get on the train up to London for an hour then the tube and back again.

What's it like in London now? Have people pretty much gone back to how it was pre Covid with socialising? Do places get packed again and are people wearing masks on public transport? Clearly people in the pub won't be wearing masks if they're drinking and chatting, so that's worrying me with the risk of him catching Covid going up in that environment. We've both had our 2 AZ jabs but tbh I'm feeling less confident about protection with more and more double jabbed people catching Covid and still getting pretty ill.

We have a 9 year old dd with ASD and every day is unpredictable and a challenge, I worry about how we'd cope if either of us caught Covid because she's so dependent on me in every sense, but I do need help from my dh with her for certain things. When I'm unwell enough to be bedbound he has to step in and help her with things like showers and all hell breaks loose, so I dread the idea of not being able to care for her, or him being unwell with Covid and not being able to step in and help when I can't function properly. We have zero support from my toxic family, and his family live hours away and are elderly anyway with their own health problems. There's also the fear of how I'd end up long term if I got Covid, I already have a pretty tough time functioning to do the basics like showering, cooking, cleaning etc, every scrap of energy I have goes on caring for our dd due to her needs, because of my health there's nothing left over for myself after that. The thought of Covid and long Covid on top of everything else fills me with dread.

He's worked freelance from home since being made redundant literally a month before the first lockdown, work has been sporadic and money is tight, I'm unable to work and get disability benefits and feel utterly useless in that sense to our family. He sees this reunion as a chance to network and try to make some contacts for work, he said if it wasn't for that he wouldn't go and take the risk. Well that and what he's not saying - that he's been stuck with no "going out out" social life for over 18 months now because of me.

Any advice would be appreciated, is it really busy again now out in London and on public transport? What could we do to reduce the risks of him catching Covid going to this night out? He can't really wear a mask if they're drinking or social distance now can he?

I’m in the centra now for work. Like you, I come from a tiny village.

I’m finding it frighteningly busy. Restaurants are packed. Mask observance is low.

I appreciate my perspective is informed by my quiet village, but I’m hating it. It feels frightening and unsafe. If I had any choice I wouldn’t be here.

Tube was rammed yesterday. And mask wearing really is around 50%. That’s older people too. Lots of groups of young people not wearing masks. No seats available. People pressed up against each other. Completely back to normal in that respect.

It’s getting back to normal. I’d say 50/50 mask wearing on tube/ trains. Non existent in bars/ pubs/ restaurants. No social distancing anywhere. I think if you’ve lived here and seen the gradual ramp, it’s been an easing back to ‘normality.’ When someone from ireland flew across with work last week - they had a mini meltdown and said they felt very unsafe. He has declared london ‘unsafe’. I understand his anxiety, but the reality is that at some point, surely life has to return to normal?

It’s interesting people find the normality stressful if they visit

As I’m used to feeling pleased to see normality.

I’m not getting crowded tubes, not saying I miss that particularly, but restaurants, fairs, theatres nice to see people together

I agree with you @MarshaBradyo but I also appreciate weve ramped back up gradually. If you go from loads of social distancing/ mask wearing/ lots of space to London. You can see how that would be stressful.

The trains feel much emptier to me - ai can get a seat on a train in the morning, whereas people used to fall out when the doors opened it was so rammed.

I’d agree about 70% masks. People still mostly wearing them in shops. I live in Brixton though, we had a lot of young BAME deaths and I’ve always felt mask adherence was pretty good. We went on holiday to Kent over summer and practically nobody had a mask on at all - totally different attitude.

I live far from London but am staying in central London for a few days.

Air quality is as terrible as ever. My eyes string from traffic fumes.
Traffic is awful, as hazardous as ever to be a pedestrian crossing road.
Lots of litter, dodgy sorts of people about.
3 or 4x today we heard/watched angry people kicking off about something. I had that "I'm not in Kansas any more!" feeling about it.

There are lots of People exactly like your DH who want to go to pubs in groups of 25 people and have a good time being relaxed with friends. So yes, it's busy & crowded, noisy, interactive, because there are so many people exactly like your DH. It's ruddy marvelous to listen to people chatting & being happy

It seemed to me like 90% mask wearing on bus & 50% mask wearing on tube. Platform or bus stop was crowded, but inside of Neither tube/bus was crowded today. I presume tomorrow rush hour will be very crowded. Parks were heaving but still plenty of room. Lots of cafe street seating.

There are hand sanitisers, covid-safe reminders & signs everywhere.

@cherin

I hope that’s the case because the official data for my NLondon borough is pretty low- not even 55% of population had 2 doses…. (OP- your husband will not meet locals, I suppose, so don’t worry about this. And if he’s sensible and tries to stay outside at the pub and then perhaps some distance in the days when he comes back…it should help.) I’ve only been in the tube off peak and it wasn’t too busy. Plenty of seats, so NOT normal yet. The % of mask wearing was also very high (weirdly, the only people I saw completely mask-less in all my journeys were young, definitely pretty girls, and a few cases of people with masks used as neck warmers- but not many ;-)

James Ward on Twitter explains the NIMS v ONS issues really well - NIMS is great for delivering vaccine programmes, not good for accurately estimating population, particularly when said population is disproportionately young or disproportionately transient. Basically, where people are more likely to move out of the area or emigrate but forget to deregister with their GP.

It’s also one reason (of several) the figures for 40-49s etc in the recent PHE surveillance data don’t support the idea that the vaccines are no longer preventing infection - the NIMS figures aren’t a great basis for estimating population particularly in smaller cohorts (eg region, age) and so are quite a poor denominator. James Ward did a good comparison with ONS figures (again not without problems) which showed a totally different figure.

(PHE has made clear that those figures shouldn’t be used to determine vaccine effectiveness; Peston and others irresponsibly ignored that, preferring a sensationalist headline.)

Another one living in the sticks but working in London.

Went back to office for first time last week.

It was busy snd on my route at least 50:50 masks. My general sense was people are more relaxed than in my little village, but it’s not surprising.

I’m not massively worried by it , to me it is the same exposure as having a child in school at the moment.

Cases in my area in kids are between 1000/100000 and 2000/100000 (and that’s only the ones we’re actually capturing through PCR)….

MarshaBradyo

“It’s interesting people find the normality stressful if they visit”

I know what you mean Marsha. But their normality is not London’s normality.

The thing I noticed (and I travel a long way into London to work) is that in the space of an hour or so, you’re in a different world.

‘Twas ever thus of course, but when it comes to covid restrictions and our hyper-awareness to them, it really hits you.

I think rates are low in London at the moment because it empties in the summer. People have been away and although they could have caught Covid on holiday, perhaps, the tubes and everything have been quiet until now ...

I'd say that now is the safest time to come to London, OP. Rates will begin to rise soon, I reckon.

@MarshaBradyo I think, as well, I’m nhs. Our rules haven’t changed, so we’re still working under very close restrictions. Masks everywhere, strict limits on numbers in the coffee room, then putting on the full works to go near patients.

So suddenly having strangers up close, without a mask on, is something I quite literally have not experienced since March 20. It’s very different and feels risky.

I’m sufficiently worried that I will be doing daily LFTs for the next week or so, as I must have been exposed, and I would hate to take anything back to my vulnerable patients.

@DillonPanthersTexas Yeah, punching down does tend to raise objections rather than a laugh.

Still, just a joke, eh. Cheer up love, smile.

OP I am so sorry, this all sounds incredibly tough and very stressful for your family. Especially you.

As a complete aside, have you ever contacted Home-Start? You mention you have no family support network and I can see you have an incredible burden on your shoulders.

It might be a small step toward building up a network of support. Having a Home-Start volunteer can help with family and practical things as well as sign posting to other help and support out there.

@DillonPanthersTexas

What's it like in London now?

Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling. Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes.The dead rising from the grave. Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.

So back to normal then.

Ghostbusters! That’s where it’s from. @DillonPanthersTexas couldn’t think for a second.
Sorry op don’t know much about central London, my mum lives in Beckenham and it’s still quiet where she is , the high street was really empty in Saturday.

I haven't been into a pub since the first lockdown, because everyone I usually meet up with is being very cautious, I also don't use public transport but my husband does, still hardly anyone wears a mask.

It's nothing like back to normal in daytime inner city places but there is a weekend /evening crowd again. Pubs are busy. Lots of places still require masks. Transport is about 50-75% as busy as it was.

We live in London. Most people are wearing masks on public transport - I would say as many as before the mask mandate in other places was dropped. It is getting much busier. But if it reassures you at all, my 2 young adult sons have been using public transport, taking Ubers, going to pubs, restaurants, cinemas, comedy clubs, parties etc and basically doing pretty much everything you would expect of young people and neither of them have caught Covid in the last few months. They are both now more than 2 weeks past their second jab but they weren't for a lot of the time. We ourselves have been on numerous trains and buses and to loads of restaurants and pubs and a couple of cinemas and theatres and we haven't caught it either (though DH and I did have it in March 2020 just as we locked down and we have had both vaccinations).

Interesting the range of responses. My DD who lives in London, and works in the city, says it's still really quiet, transport still below normal, and only 50% wearing masks. Entertainment/restaurants back to normal in the evenings. During the day very quiet, no international tourists, tourist sites quiet.

DH went into London mid morning last week, from Surrey commuter belt. He was alone in the carriage! Underground also very quiet, but most not wearing masks. He went into the city and said it was eerily empty. Had lunch, didn't need to book.

Also, very low rates in London now. Better than much of the rest of the country.

I don’t agree that things are back to normal. It’s certainly busier than it was over July and August but the trains and tubes are still a lot quieter, particularly outside of peak times.

Agree that mask wearing is patchy.

Does he know where they are going? There are a lot more outdoor areas now, many undercover, so larger groups are tending to organise places outdoors in lots of instances.

I don’t agree that things are back to normal. It’s certainly busier than it was over July and August but the trains and tubes are still a lot quieter, particularly outside of peak times.

Yep I’ve got a meeting in town today and had to leave the car at the station. Very busy commuter station. In normal times, there’d be no chance of parking there at 11am on a weekday - spaces usually all gone by 8.30. Today it was about half full.

It was rammed on Saturday. Maybe it’s back to normal at the weekend and still quiet in the week if lots are still wfh.

Also very busy Friday night. Depends when he is going.

Heh, Delatron, I was in yesterday for the theatre and was thinking how delightfully uncrowded the South Bank was! On a sunny September Sunday it would have been rammed before, lots of space to wander yesterday, not crowded at all.

Full capacity theatre though! The queue for the loos 😬😬