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Original poster

Masks in schools - what are the ACTUAL rules in England?

29 replies

changingstages · 29/08/2021 09:38

Am just curious, really, and have no wish to start a big debate on masks in schools - mine is in primary where the pupils have never had masks, though DH sometimes teaches in secondary.

Anyway, our school sent a letter this week which says:
"Advice states children are not permitted to wear masks whilst on the school premises."

Which feels like a bit of a woolly sentence - 'advice' and 'not permitted' don't seem to work together. But I wondered what the DfE advice actually does say - I have googled but it's hard to tell what applies.

OP posts:
dementedpixie · 29/08/2021 09:51

Surely if a child chooses to wear one they should be allowed to? What's the not permitted nonsense all about?

Original poster
changingstages · 29/08/2021 11:30

Yes, that's what made it stand out to me - it felt a bit weird.

OP posts:
CarrotTops · 29/08/2021 11:35

Advise is masks are not required. Not not permitted. Not permitted means they aren't allowed. BIf a child wishes to wear a mask that should be fine

Piggywaspushed · 29/08/2021 11:37

I'll have to dig out the most recent guidance (there are two different sets, annoyingly) but I am certain the word is not permitted'.

Masks are still meant to be worn on buses.

Dghgcotcitc · 29/08/2021 11:38

They are not required nationally schools can introduce their own rules (as they do for uniforms all the time) our secondary has masks at least in communal areas last year abd in classrooms for most of it including after July when the rules were changed for the rest of the population. They were never told they could not adopt this rule!

Piggywaspushed · 29/08/2021 11:39

This is the section :

*Face coverings are no longer advised for pupils, staff and visitors either in classrooms or in communal areas.

The government has removed the requirement to wear face coverings in law but expects and recommends that they are worn in enclosed and crowded spaces where you may come into contact with people you don’t normally meet. This includes public transport and dedicated transport to school or college.

In circumstances where face coverings are recommended
If you have a substantial increase in the number of positive cases in your school (see Stepping measures up and down section for more information), a director of public health might advise you that face coverings should temporarily be worn in communal areas or classrooms (by pupils staff and visitors, unless exempt). You should make sure your contingency plans cover this possibility.

Face visors or shields can be worn by those exempt from wearing a face covering but they are not an equivalent alternative in terms of source control of virus transmission. They may protect the wearer against droplet spread in specific circumstances but are unlikely to be effective in preventing the escape of smaller respiratory particles when used without an additional face covering. They should only be used after carrying out a risk assessment for the specific situation and should always be cleaned appropriately*

Time2getSerious · 29/08/2021 11:48

My DCs secondary school hasn’t mentioned this yet but my view is that ‘not advised’ is not the same as ‘not permitted’. Hoping that my DC will continue to wear a mask as he has since September last year.

lannistunut · 29/08/2021 15:30

'not advised' doesn't mean 'you are advised not to' it means 'at this time we are not advising you to'. Does that make sense?

I asked my head would my child still be allowed to wear one, they said they have no probem with kids choosing to.

As it is fucking stupid not to be wearing them, I would be annoyed if my child was actively prevented from wearing one.

MRex · 29/08/2021 16:05

expects and recommends that they are worn in enclosed and crowded spaces where you may come into contact with people you don’t normally meet
Interesting, this would still include corridors in 99% of schools. I didn't know that was recommended for primary as well @Piggywaspushed.

OP - the link is here to the bit @Piggywaspushed quoted for you: www.gov.uk/government/publications/actions-for-schools-during-the-coronavirus-outbreak/schools-covid-19-operational-guidance#face-coverings

yellowdigsaur · 29/08/2021 22:35

The south west is in 'enhanced measures' and masks need to be worn in schools again in communal areas I think it is - so the rules are likely to be fluid as cases ebb and flow round the country maybe?

Original poster
changingstages · 30/08/2021 00:34

It seems they've interpreted this in quite a strange (wrong...) way. For some reason it worries me. I can't quite say why - am unlikely to be sending my daughter in a mask and overall we like the school and know they've worked very hard to keep them all safe. I nearly emailed the head (who the letter came from) tonight but decided against it - presumably she is very, very busy and probably bombarded with messages about all sorts of other things, and I have no wish to be THAT parent. But it does make me feel a little uncomfortable.

OP posts:
Wellbythebloodyhell · 30/08/2021 01:18

Did they wear a mask last school year?

lannistunut · 30/08/2021 06:49

@changingstages

It seems they've interpreted this in quite a strange (wrong...) way. For some reason it worries me. I can't quite say why - am unlikely to be sending my daughter in a mask and overall we like the school and know they've worked very hard to keep them all safe. I nearly emailed the head (who the letter came from) tonight but decided against it - presumably she is very, very busy and probably bombarded with messages about all sorts of other things, and I have no wish to be THAT parent. But it does make me feel a little uncomfortable.
I never understand this fear of being 'that parent' - why would you worry about the head knowing you're an engaged, intelligent parent who cares about your child and the wider school community?

The head is not going to mind polite emails.

NightmareLoon · 30/08/2021 08:16

Our head is allowing anyone who still wishes (teachers or students) to wear a mask to do so.

It's common sense, if it reduces anxiety (vulnerable people in family, health anxiety), the kids learn better.

Original poster
changingstages · 30/08/2021 08:26

@Wellbythebloodyhell

Did they wear a mask last school year?
No. Which is why, in answer to the question from @lannistunut, I don't want to be THAT parent. I think my discomfort with it stems from what seems to be quite a big misinterpretation of the guidance, so I am concerned about how they will interpret further guidance. But I am in agreement with the other measures they are taking so it feels pointless to email.
OP posts:
lannistunut · 30/08/2021 08:33

@NightmareLoon

Our head is allowing anyone who still wishes (teachers or students) to wear a mask to do so.

It's common sense, if it reduces anxiety (vulnerable people in family, health anxiety), the kids learn better.

Just going to add - it isn't about 'reducing anxiety' for me or my family, it is about the fact it is pretty stupid to not be wearing masks indoors when cases are >300/100,000 nationally.

I am aboslutely tired of anyone who takes Covid seriously being badged as 'anxious'. This is right-wing propaganda.

Rees-Mogg doesn't wear a mask, Chris Whitty does. That tells me all I need to know - mask wearing has fuck all to do with 'anxiety' and everything to do with sense.

lannistunut · 30/08/2021 08:36

@changingstages

Ah, well then yes, if your kids didn't wear masks (for any other reason than an exemption) then you are in a difficult position as you will look stupid caring now when you didn't follow scientific advice last year Confused

Why do you care this year if you didn't care last year? Unless it was an exemption, in which case, you can still email without embarrassment.

Original poster
changingstages · 30/08/2021 09:19

[quote lannistunut]@changingstages

Ah, well then yes, if your kids didn't wear masks (for any other reason than an exemption) then you are in a difficult position as you will look stupid caring now when you didn't follow scientific advice last year Confused

Why do you care this year if you didn't care last year? Unless it was an exemption, in which case, you can still email without embarrassment.[/quote]
As I said, she's in primary, where they have never been required to wear a mask.

As I just explained, I'm slightly concerned as it seems like a misreading of the guidance and it makes me wonder if their interpretations are/will be correct. I think clear and correct communication is important. But as they are being cautious and have provided advice which seems careful and considered - as far as they can, anyway - I am extremely hesitant to add to workload.

OP posts:
Wellbythebloodyhell · 30/08/2021 11:53

@changingstages the reason I asked If they wore masks last year is because my dc primary had a similar stance last year, although I can't remember exactly how it was worded but masks for the children were not allowed. A few parents did ask about the children wearing masks when we had local spikes in cases and the answer was always similar to what your school have said, advice Is for children not to wear face coverings.

Original poster
changingstages · 30/08/2021 13:06

[quote Wellbythebloodyhell]@changingstages the reason I asked If they wore masks last year is because my dc primary had a similar stance last year, although I can't remember exactly how it was worded but masks for the children were not allowed. A few parents did ask about the children wearing masks when we had local spikes in cases and the answer was always similar to what your school have said, advice Is for children not to wear face coverings.[/quote]
I think we did actually have something with the same wording last year - if I went through the emails from the school I could probably find it, which I may do later out of curiousity...

OP posts:
Bizawit · 30/08/2021 13:47

If it’s primary school children, I can see why they have interpreted the guidance in this way (although it is still poor phrasing - as you say “advice” and “not permitted” don’t go well together). The government has actively advised against masks in primary schools on the grounds that: it is difficult for primary school children to wear them all day, they may not wear them correctly and it may be detrimental to education, well-being and development.

lannistunut · 30/08/2021 16:06

But as they are being cautious and have provided advice which seems careful and considered - as far as they can, anyway - I am extremely hesitant to add to workload.

If you don;t want to ask then don;t but honestly I don't think there is any point worrying about 'adding to workload' - they are professionals, you are a parent, you're entitled to ask questions, they are used to answering. I think it is quite patronising towards them to assume a simple email from you will be too much to deal with.

I know I am very lucky with our head but he is good with emails, he is happy to answer, he is forever asking aprents to get in touch.

AlmostSummer21 · 30/08/2021 16:13

Rees-Mogg doesn't wear a mask, Chris Whitty does. That tells me all I need to know - mask wearing has fuck all to do with 'anxiety' and everything to do with sense

@lannistunut. Exactly!!

Comefromaway · 31/08/2021 18:49

Dh teaches. He will be wearing a mask.

Wellbythebloodyhell · 31/08/2021 21:02

@Comefromaway

Dh teaches. He will be wearing a mask.
I think OP is asking in relation to the children wearing masks at primary school not the adults
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