Those of us who were ‘cannon fodder’- how do you feel?

[Onandoff]

I went to a gathering the other day with people who were privileged enough to still be working from home in highly paid city jobs. Their experiences were a stark contrast with mine. It was interesting to hear how protected they’d been, many still getting shopping delivered and only just resuming socialising. They hadn’t been on public transport at all. There was a general air of resentment at being asked to go back to offices and commute. They’d all saved money and were very worried about covid exposure despite being vaccinated. Apparently many workers have completely refused to return.

DH and I were the only key workers there and it brought home how exposed we’d been. Literally all of our family and colleagues caught it and some died or were left disabled. My mum died. In the hospital where I work 80% caught it in the first wave alone.

It’s been interesting to see through this that the jobs essential to society are (generally, appreciate some exceptions like medics) the worst paid. If we’d refused to go in or been redeployed we’d have been sacked. While the privileged middle class are still being pandered to despite vaccination.

I feel that those who went out to work should be financially compensated for the risk we took. At the very least we should be given tax breaks and not be expected to cough up for furlough costs.

@MiddleParking

Love the people getting wound up at DfE policy officials writing guidance on ventilation in schools because they’re working at home. Wait til you find out who tells them what to write, and how those people got their jobs.

They might be told what to write, but they (civil servants) are at home because they are mithering about going back to the office while writing about how others should be more mindful of the temperature than covid. They should at least feel some shame there.

I personally don't mind going back to the office and probably prefer it. COVID has taken its toll on my family with death of my mother. I don't have a problem with people complaining about going back to the office if there is no logical reason for it. Many people were very productive working at home. I have friends that are very opposed to returning to the office and it's hard to fault their logic which is along the lines of:

• it spreads the virus
• they were ultra productive at home
• there is no need to return to the office
• etc ...

As I said previously people who went to work these past 18mths should have some reward - financial or otherwise.

@borntobequiet

How many healthy young women would have been killed if the JCVI had prioritised teachers

Female teachers make up about 76% of the workforce and the median age for a teacher is 39. In primary schools the percentage of female teachers is higher, and they tend to be younger.
With infection rates in schoolchildren regularly among the highest, prioritising school and teaching staff for vaccination would have made a lot of sense.

If you’d vaccinated all of them with AZ you’d have killed and hospitalised several. Probably about the same number as you’d have prevented from death or hospitalisation due to Covid. At the beginning of the vaccination programme we simply didn’t know enough to be certain that the vaccines were safe enough to be worth the benefit for young healthy women.

Absolutely cannon fodder. Went to work every day. Horrified reading the sheer entitlement of people who think they should be able to work at home indefinitely for their convenience. It was not convenient to me to leave my kids at home to school themselves whilst providing public services.

They might be told what to write, but they (civil servants) are at home because they are mithering about going back to the office while writing about how others should be more mindful of the temperature than covid. They should at least feel some shame there.

hope it keeps fine for you!

@Branleuse

Op. Dont forget people CLAPPED for you. Thats the main thing, surely

Absolutely.

My exH is a middle aged male bus driver. He was driving around when all the London bus drivers were dropping like flies. His fault for not having a 'better job'. Friends in retail being paid poorly. Scared to go to work to fill shelves and online delivery orders. My kids with SEN who 'didn't qualify' for F2F school (they did, but our local High School with capacity for 600 only accepted 12 students each morning and afternoon session). My medical treatments put back until I have further complications, and have lost teeth.

It has certainly highlighted the inequalities in society.
I'd not like to see my middle class friends who are still wfh and have saved a fortune in commuting costs suffer. I'd like us all to be brought up to the same levels. Pigs might fly.

I was firmly told on here that it was essentially my fault for choosing a job that I couldn’t work from home in hmm not sure who they think is going to look after their little darlings so they can cozily work from home if all the teachers leave and go elsewhere

Not sure if you noticed, but the vast majority of children were being taught at home during lockdown. If, as a teacher, you think of your pupils as other people's "little darlings" you should perhaps be considering another profession.

and where do you suppose the money to "compensate" people for doing their jobs would come from? Tax payers. So effectively you want money from other hard workers who have been doing their jobs throughout the pandemic just like you have. Or do you propose to tax just the rich people? Sounds an awful lot like discrimination when you go down that route. I'm sorry you have had a hard time of it but you can't possibly assume all middle class people have got off scott free. This is a very bitter post.

@ForTheLoveOfSleep

I am not trying to be a bitch here but surely medical personnel are aware of the risks of infectious diseases and the like when they train/apply for the role? It is their job to treat patients.

I do however, think factory, supermarket, delivery drivers etc should have had a risk factor payment/bonus (iyswim).

This makes some sense. Those in front facing NHS do sign up to risk of exposure to infection. Not to pandemic levels maybe (although contingency must surely always be in place?), but you expect it by wearing PPE as standard.

Minimum wage / low wage front facing key workers who took a risk should receive some bonus. I believe some supermarkets did this. I think too hospital cleaners who faced such level of risk on very low pay.

Its not a race to the bottom. Some had a great time, some a miserable one, independent of keyworker status.
My keyworker friend and husband (accountant and car mechanic) had an amazing time during lockdowns. Kids still at school, friend was fully working from home, husband 50% working from home, kids at school/daycare. They loved it,
My medic BIL and his wife (also a DR) were fine. He was busy, she was bored (hardly any patients), both kids at school/daycare.
Husband and I aren’t keyworkers. We had 2 kids at home (one with SENDs), both working full time (and more than normal due to business needs), home schooling plus SENDs support. We survived on 4-5 hours sleep with no personal time. Miserable. Furlough not an option.
Another friend (working at a supermarket) caught covid, but was ok. Mixed bag for her.
Yet another one had to end his career ( theatre) and is still on universal credit. He’s miserable.
Somehow I don’t think the first examples need financial compensation, it really depends on personal circumstances

I think TBH you've got a bit of a chip on your shoulder about 'privileged' people with 'highly paid city jobs'.

I absolutely agree that jobs essential to society are generally not nearly well enough paid. And I do know that many people have had to continue going to work, using public transport and mixing with the public, some of whom are not considerate enough to wear masks and keep distance. I absolutely realise that people whose work puts them in these situations have had and are having a very very tough and risky time.

But it's not a competition as to who's had it worst.

I work at home (had done for years pre-Covid). So nothing much changed for me personally in the narrowest sense. But I did all of a sudden have my DH and lodger both at home all week too. While overall it's OK and we talk things through and sort things out, there have been some tensions and I do find it disruptive (my lodger spends a lot of work time on group calls, which can be noisy, while my job requires quiet concentration and focus).
My lodger's company took a year to get their act together to send him a decent chair to use at home. Until then he sat on a garden or kitchen chair. It's played havoc with his back and shoulders.

My DH's work has also been severely affected by the pandemic and the burden of keeping us is on me. And I don't earn highly. The pressure and worry also affects his mental health; he already had anxiety conditions and they're worse now.

I know many people for whom work/personal time boundaries have become blurred – endless back-to-back Zoom sessions with no time to eat lunch or even go to the loo, clients and colleagues messaging and wanting things at all hours and on non-work days like weekends –and who are very close to burning out. Yes, some of these people are 'privileged' in the sense of being well paid, but that's not all there is to it.

@noblegiraffe

They might be told what to write, but they (civil servants) are at home because they are mithering about going back to the office while writing about how others should be more mindful of the temperature than covid. They should at least feel some shame there.

That's inaccurate. The offices often don't have capacity for everybody coming into work. Many places have reduced office size and whole floors of government buildings are now rented out. They receive revenue from this and save money on heating and lighting. Home working is the new norm. It's flexible, saves money, is good for the environment and is suited to lots of roles.

Eh, its been shit for everyone

That's inaccurate.

I know they're mithering about returning to work because I've heard it from people who work with them. That was certainly a conversation that didn't enhance my calm.

Not sure if you noticed, but the vast majority of children were being taught at home during lockdown.

I agree that during the first lockdown the majority were at home, but it was a different story during the other lockdowns. At one point we had 75% of students in, and knew of other schools who were almost at full capacity.

If, as a teacher, you think of your pupils as other people's "little darlings" you should perhaps be considering another profession.

Whilst it's not a term I would use, I don't see why using it makes you think the poster should consider another job.

But @Birminghambloke and @EmilyEmmabob, the infection data doesn’t actually bear out an increased risk- though it seems intuitive to us that it should... JVCI had a lot of evidence and carefully considered occupational risk as part of the vaccine rollout. Age was the key risk then underlying health conditions for catching covid and having serious health consequences. Occupation did not. In fact, isn’t it the case that with heightened concern, mitigation and protective measures as knowledge grew of covid in occupations better protected them? Versus the general population I mean. And I still think further protection steps could have been taken, especially schools. Transmission was (and still is I think) predominantly driven by in home contact, in households and families. Generally not in workplaces which had to remain open. As PP said, this has been a lottery. I’d like to see social carers paid more, and know what a tough time teachers have had too- a tough job made so much worse in pandemic, even those who were teaching remotely. But we will all need to pay for this- including the Amazons, and big supermarkets who benefitted.

@GloriaSilver

Absolutely cannon fodder. Went to work every day. Horrified reading the sheer entitlement of people who think they should be able to work at home indefinitely for their convenience. It was not convenient to me to leave my kids at home to school themselves whilst providing public services.

Why would other people prioritising something that is important to them horrify you? Isn’t that normal? Working from home is an important factor in a job for some people, for others it isn’t and pay is more important, for others it’s something else eg for me right now, my company’s maternity policy is the most important factor as we’re currently ttc dc2. For those individuals for whom wfh is important, I can’t blame them for wanting to go for it. And it’s not really connected to whether other individuals in other jobs can wfh or not.

Yes it’s my job and yes I understand the risks and in no way tried to absent my self from my professional responsibility. In fact pandemic imposed a clear and unifiying sense of purpose eg this is what we trained for. To be present,to participate and to step up.

With due respect for you as a HCP, many of us facing the same risks as those HCPs did so without that type of training, understanding and knowledge, I had more in the way of IC knowledge being in care, but many didn't even have that, working in shops or driving buses etc.
I don't mean to sound like I'm having a dig at you, I'm using your comment to show to others that while you as a HCP had expectations and knowledge around a pandemic and could reasonably expect certain things, many others didn't, and would never have been expected to in their job role.
Our support HCPs were run absolutely ragged, we could see that, they could see the same in us, we lost a lot of support from areas that we needed it because they were busy elsewhere - absolutely not the fault of those HCPs at all, but we were flying almost blind with some things.

It's actually quite soul destroying to hear HCPs and other occupations that faced what we did torn to shreds like on this thread. I feel like we're nothing, of no value at all and berated for feeling that way and feeling frustrated and angry, yet are still being expected to step up and carry on.

I'm grateful people stayed at home if they could, but I'm not going to be grateful for putting myself on the line like I did and feel sympathy for those that didn't whining about holidays and homeschooling and having to go back to work when those people have zero empathy for what those on the other side of the fence went through and actually berate them for their reaction.

I do get where you are coming from but we were told to stay at home precisely to ease the burden on key workers. So it feels a bit can't do wrong for doing right, or whatever the phrase is.

Some people have had a (much) harder time than others but I don't see a fair way to balance it out.

@noblegiraffe

That's inaccurate.

I know they're mithering about returning to work because I've heard it from people who work with them. That was certainly a conversation that didn't enhance my calm.

Amazing 🤣 if you’ve heard it from people who work with them it must be true! Which is why I’m sure you’ll agree that we should all believe everything we hear about teachers too.

Everyone has experienced the pandemic differently.

I will seem to you like a pampered middle class person who wfh getting shopping delivered.

But what you don't see is the stress and long hours spent trying to save the organisation from going under due the the financial impact of Covid. Then still having to make colleagues redundant.

You don't see how there is now no barrier between home and work life.

You don't see the colleagues whose mental health was deteriorating through loneliness and isolation.

Our children didn't qualify for hubs so we went through the hell of home schooling alongside all of the above.

We all experienced this differently and yes it was nice to get my shipping delivered but much of it has been hell.

I worked throughout the pandemic.

I doubt see myself a cannon fodder.

@Abhannmor

If you were not furloughed I don't see why you should pay some proposed ' furlough tax' ?

What if you were furloughed for 3 weeks? Should you pay the same "furlough tax" as someone who was furloughed for 12 months?

@Unsure33

The problem is the NHS is I think the biggest employer in the country and if everyone got a raise or bonus it would cost billions . No one is saying it is not deserved .

So the answer Is we all voter for an increase in taxes or national insurance to pay for the “ financial compensation “ and that would have to apply to everyone like shop workers or refuse collectors as well , or business owners who did continue having to go in and keep businesses running ?

Personally I would not have a problem with that as long as there was also an investigation into how much some NHS a trust managers are paid . And making sure there is no waste within the NHS.

The government don’t pay for this , the tax payers do . Many of who have been working on severely reduced incomes .

Life is not black and white .

They don't need to give everyone a pay rise though. I know a few NHS staff via family and friends and they've wfh throughout. Why would they get a payrise?

Frontline nurses deserve a big salary bump.

Why does nobody mention construction. Construction was expected to stay open throughout too. The power stations, oil & gas workers, the clean and dirty water workers, defence, bank staff, bin men & recycling workers should they all get a bonus too?

People forget about all the other hidden roles that are essential to keep the country moving.

Not all of whom were able to WFH.

Where are you going to make the cuts to pay for these bonuses?