Interesting article on govt inaction, kids and 4th wave

[beentoldcomputersaysno]

bylinetimes.com/2021/08/18/the-fourth-wave-children-paying-the-price-of-government-inaction-and-covid-19-lobbying/

I’m lost as to why open schools is now being portrayed as some fiendish Tory capitalist plot, and the left-wing response should be to limit the access children get to schools and to education.

Yep. What the actual fucking fuck.

It could be hybrid but realistically we would have to change key worker provisions and attitudes to those to be socially distanced our key worker kids would fill the school so realistically we would have to end key worker provision (a big change considering these kids have gone to school throughout) or make it key worker only (the most likely option in my opinion. Unless we suddenly say to all the nhs staff thanks and all but you no longer have a full time school place and I cannot see that happening.

There are very simple and minimal provisions like wearing masks and keeping bubbles which have not even been recommended by the government.

Is it still open to schools to implement eg mask wearing even if government doesn't mandate it?

I know DD's school asked them to wear masks last term even though it wasn't official advice.

@bizboz this government is completely and utterly useless, and Gavin W is the worst of the bunch. Why he's still there I just don't know. They've messed every single thing they've faced since they were elected.

We should be protecting children not infecting children.

About 2000 children have been admitted to hospital with covid in the last two months.

Either people don't know this,

Or they don't care,

Some seem to think the kids going back to school in a week is somehow going to improve the situation.

[quote Amboseli]@bizboz this government is completely and utterly useless, and Gavin W is the worst of the bunch. Why he's still there I just don't know. They've messed every single thing they've faced since they were elected.[/quote]
The govt is useless, on that we can agree.

But they are responding to public opinion. I might have misjudged it, but in recent weeks, seems to be becoming increasingly tired of ineffective, unjustifiable or open-ended restrictions.

It's easy to ask a rhetorical 'why not ... just in case', and apply it to mask wearing, window opening, distancing, etc.. While the cost per measure isn't directly a lot, it is overall a ton of work for teachers and headteachers to administer. Frankly, for the return we will get (which, let's be honest, is not much improvement in absolute safety), I'd rather teachers spend their time... well, teaching. Lots of lost education to catch up on, after all.

Risk is an aggregate thing, and individuals and families /can/ impact their own overall risk if they want. (Stay home in the evenings; shop online instead of going to the supermarket; wear FFP masks; test before meeting up; etc.) This is not to say schools should do /absolutely/ nothing, but you certainly have to ask why don't people act to protect themselves or their family if it is so important?

I’m really uncomfortable about the idea of primary aged children wearing masks. Admittedly I don’t have children myself but I know I would have really struggled as a child (I struggle with masks as an adult). I also don’t cope well with heat and would have felt seriously unwell if I had to wear a mask in warm weather. My concentration on schoolwork would have most definitely have suffered.

@puppeteer the government is led only by public opinion. Everything they say and do is with a view to getting re-elected. What's best for the country is way down their list of considerations.

It’s certainly how Borris seemed to play it.

[quote Amboseli]@puppeteer the government is led only by public opinion. Everything they say and do is with a view to getting re-elected. What's best for the country is way down their list of considerations.[/quote]
Same for pretty much every government everywhere

@bluetongue

I’m really uncomfortable about the idea of primary aged children wearing masks. Admittedly I don’t have children myself but I know I would have really struggled as a child (I struggle with masks as an adult). I also don’t cope well with heat and would have felt seriously unwell if I had to wear a mask in warm weather. My concentration on schoolwork would have most definitely have suffered.

Japanese and other East Asian schoolchildren manage just fine. More than fine in fact. They have high educational standards and results.

Many European countries and states in America are also now managing to mask in schools.

British exceptionalism harming our children and exposing them to unnecessary risk.

Oh and to be clear the cdc has said all children in the us should return full time to the classroom

That's after being closed for over a year in many US states.

The CDC is offering vaccines to all children over 12 AND giving booster jabs to adults. We don't currently have enough supply to do that. America is also looking into vaccinating younger, when possible (trials are underway on under 12s).

Increasing numbers of American schools have vaccine and/or mask mandates (staff and students).

Vulnerable children AND children with vulnerable adult family members matter as much as any other child. Losing a parent or the parent becoming too disabled to work has a massive impact on a child's wellbeing.

Other countries are trying for a balance. Schools open but simple easy mitigation measures like masks.

Show me a randomised control trial proving masks work. The virus is smaller than the wholes and your breath just goes out the sides and is directed onto the person sitting next to you. They're not some magic virus sieve. They're worse than useless, especially where you're seated side by side.

I sit in an office with hundreds of people. 30 minutes break and no masks except in communal areas. Why should children face more restrictions than adults?

Masks are staying on the kids over here (Japan) and I think it's fine.

Just a point though: a lot of people probably resist masks in the UK because they suspect-rightly or wrongly-that it's thin-edge-of-the-wedge for more closures, rather than being something that might make it less likely that schools have to close.

I have not read the article. However, there are no easy answers. In my own personal opinion as long as sport in this country can take place, to hell with everyone else. Letting the Euros go ahead was sheer and utter madness. It damn well annoyed me to be sitting watching football fans, tennis fans etc all freely mixing but we weren't 'allowed'. The double standards are unbelievable. If they tell us to have another Lockdown, they can sod right off from me. I've followed all instructions to the letter. Not anymore, Im going to become a sportsperson, then it seems, I can do whatever I please. When they Lockdown the footballers, tennis players and celebs, then they can tell me to do it.

Physical distancing in schools should not only refer to being 2 meters apart. I think they could reinforce simple measures. At my own kids school I see them practically forehead-to-forehead huddled around a piece of work, sitting in circles, holding hands to walk along and other things that I think could be discouraged at this time. There are physical distancing measures that wouldn't cause disruption.

@containsnuts

We sat the children in rows and constantly reminded them to distance in the playground but they just don’t. Even in rows they’re in each other’s faces. I had to deal with a game where they were spitting in each other’s faces and they couldn’t see how this was breaking distancing rules.

You cannot enforce distancing or no handholding without constantly nagging, reprimanding and raising your voice at them. It’s miserable and felt wrong so we stopped. I say this as someone who has been disgusted by the lack of safety measures in school but enforcing distancing on children is cruel.

Ventilation could be addressed.

Other things are a balance. I feel that more children over 12 should be given the chance to have the vaccine - not necessarily recommended (due to risk-benefit - which is different in each situation), but it should be a choice.

The current measures will predispose to large outbreaks when schools return; which harms those kids and teachers with certain medical conditions.

I wish people would realise that precautions doesn’t mean being pro-lockdown and that if we had more control measures in places like schools then they would be able to stay open for longer. Living with covid doesn’t mean abandoning all sensible measures to reduce the risk. But Instead we’re about to let covid rip like wildfire again until we have no choice but to close things down again. It’s so bloody frustrating.

I’m a mask wearing teacher. I open all my windows for ventilation and have as many kids working in our outdoor learning environment as possible each day. I didn’t miss a day’s work last year and my bubble was the only class in my school not to close. I took precautions like masks and being strict about enforcing isolation for kids with family members who’d tested positive and my class stayed open. Next year, I fully expect to have to close because these measures have been taken away.

[quote CheeseTiger]@containsnuts

We sat the children in rows and constantly reminded them to distance in the playground but they just don’t. Even in rows they’re in each other’s faces. I had to deal with a game where they were spitting in each other’s faces and they couldn’t see how this was breaking distancing rules.

You cannot enforce distancing or no handholding without constantly nagging, reprimanding and raising your voice at them. It’s miserable and felt wrong so we stopped. I say this as someone who has been disgusted by the lack of safety measures in school but enforcing distancing on children is cruel.[/quote]
Yes, I can see that in the playground this would be difficult. At least they are outdoors though. I was referring more to what happens in the classroom and corridors. I should have worded it better.

It’s just as difficult in the classroom. They don’t distance in the classroom either and like I said, your only weapon is constant verbal reminders every few seconds as they continually forget. Nagging, reprimanding, eventually raising your voice. It makes for a miserable classroom environment.

@Kokeshi123

Masks are staying on the kids over here (Japan) and I think it's fine.

Just a point though: a lot of people probably resist masks in the UK because they suspect-rightly or wrongly-that it's thin-edge-of-the-wedge for more closures, rather than being something that might make it less likely that schools have to close.

I certainly do think that is true myself.

It’s not the only reason.

But mask wearing certainly normalises thinking that cases matter, and as we know if we’re honest, now, they really don’t.

Closures and extended isolations matter, because they also damage educations chances and disrupt.

The journey to removing that need for isolation and closures is to normalise a way of thinking that it’s not necessary because the consequential illness — if there even is any — is either no longer serious or at least manageable.

Masks take us in the wrong direction. (As does a red list, a ping app, and so on.)

The main danger is to staff, so they need to be prioritised for boosters, then we just need to crack on.

Plus do whatever practically possible to improve ventilation (which doesn't include building an entirely new building for which we have neither the money nor space).