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Covid

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Scotland wants to make covid powers permanent

61 replies

PopcornMuncher · 17/08/2021 21:36

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/08/17/scottish-government-wants-make-emergency-covid-powers-permanent/?WT.mc_id=tmgliveapp_iosshare_Axnk434vZ14W

Would anyone actually support this or has Nicola Sturgeon lost the plot?

OP posts:
Knittingupastorm · 19/08/2021 19:34

it's safer for us if the government are able to quickly take precautions if we have a particularly bad flu year (or God help us, another pandemic).

They closed schools and implemented lockdowns (two of the points mentioned in the article) very quickly in March 2020. It’s not like covid was raging for months (or even days) while MPs wrung their hands saying “we’d have closed the schools already if not for the laws slowing us down!”

helpfulperson · 19/08/2021 19:35

For there to be a viable opposition in Scotland requires people to get involved in politics with one of the other parties or start a new one. And people not prepared to do that (myself included) have limited justification to complain.

PicsInRed · 19/08/2021 19:44

@Againstmachine

Emergency powers should never be permanent.

Exactly how many said that the governments will want to keep these powers and were laughed at. You give goverment powers they are reluctant to lose them.

Yep.
Againstmachine · 19/08/2021 20:22

@PicsInRed

People will say well it makes it easier next time, it was hardly hard the first time.

PicsInRed · 19/08/2021 20:25

[quote Againstmachine]@PicsInRed

People will say well it makes it easier next time, it was hardly hard the first time.[/quote]
Exactly, and it shouldn't be easy to restrict freedoms, the difficulty is quite literally the safeguarding inherent in the structure of our liberal democracy.

I predict this will be used for flu. Wait and watch the mission creep.

lannistunut · 19/08/2021 20:29

We will potentially need the lockdown powers again Sad

Againstmachine · 19/08/2021 20:43

People said they liked Nicola during this better than boris, she was a better orator but policies weren't much different.

They have got a bit of power and don't want to relinquish it. And most of Scotland didn't vote for them. Same as UK and Boris.

Againstmachine · 19/08/2021 22:42

We will potentially need the lockdown powers again sad

Create new laws you don't let the old ones go open ended.

MercyBooth · 20/08/2021 00:17

Some of us told ya so.

rightenough · 20/08/2021 04:46

This is specifically on powers to close schools:

In the event of a future pandemic, the broad nature of the powers will provide Ministers with the flexibility to take the action needed to address the specific circumstances of the health emergency.

This is... frankly terrifying. Broad nature of powers? With what responsibility, exactly?

It goes on to say that the safeguard is the advice of the CMO. While I absolutely respect the advice of the CMO in matters relating to Chief Medical issues, what remit does the Chief Medical Officer have over education, child development, mental health issues, poverty, isolation, chaotic home lives, abusive parents? Is the CMO advising on ‘The Virus’ or on the effects of locking a child with ADHD up in a flat all day and seeing how long it takes the family to crack? Is the CMO advising on ‘The Virus’ or on how single parents are supposed to juggle homeschooling two illiterate children whilst working full time so they can afford to eat this month?

And if not the CMO - who is advising on that?

WHO has the power to tell them to fucking wait a second and actually prove that this is actually necessary?

Do they even know if the last ones were justified yet?

What have they done to assess the impact on children’s health, wellbeing, development, education? Do they know how long it’s going to take for children to recover? How much money it’s going to cost? Have the government put the resources in place?

It cannot be the case that these powers to close schools can be made permanent - especially when they don't appear to fully understand the long term consequences of this and they will not be fully understood for years, perhaps even generations, to come. Regardless of how many caveats or ‘only when X’ are slotted into the legislation. Regardless of whatever virus is endemic.

Somebody needs to hold them to some fucking account I swear.

lannistunut · 20/08/2021 06:15

It cannot be the case that these powers to close schools can be made permanent

I think what is worrying me more than the possible extension of powers is the likelihood that we may need to close schools again, or may need to take urgent measures. I'm only just getting my head around the implications of covid going forwards, it has really made me realise how much I have taken ordinary things for granted.

Intellectually I had understood covid would not be quickly resolved but it is another matter processing it emotionally.

TheGenealogist · 20/08/2021 12:11

@Againstmachine

People said they liked Nicola during this better than boris, she was a better orator but policies weren't much different.

They have got a bit of power and don't want to relinquish it. And most of Scotland didn't vote for them. Same as UK and Boris.

If "better than Boris" is the only criteria for being a decent politician we're all fucked. It's a pretty low bar to set.

The SNP is power hungry and wants to control people's lives to a far greater extent than in the rest of the UK. Named person legislation - which they have got rid of - removed rights from parents to make decisions on behalf of their children, they have imposed a minimum alcohol pricing to stop us drinking (not working, highest alcohol deaths in UK), passed hate legislation to make voicing the opinion that a transwoman is male a crime, lower drink driving limit than in England, keep wearing masks longer than England.

It's ALL about the control. ALL about being different from England (because they don't care about Wales and N Ireland) and proving that because we're so different, that means that we need independence.

Their "independent" experts are not independent at all and are picked because they will toe the party line and say what Nicola wants them to stay. Their Covid expert Ms Sridhar tweeted last year that people who are pro-Union (and therefore against independence) and "anti-Scottish". Despite her deleting the tweet and protesting that she didn't mean it, it was for a north American audience, of course she wasn't making political statements. nobody was fooled.

Planetsandstars · 20/08/2021 13:52

“ the Conservatives said the move showed Scottish ministers were "unwilling to give up their control over people's lives"

This sums it up, for me.

Peteycat · 20/08/2021 14:57

Nanny and John it is not sensible. I'm not in Scotland but wow. Its terrible. No need at all. Why do you say its sensible? For what reason?

Like other posters said it can be implemented if need be.

visitingagain · 20/08/2021 15:57

The powers they want to keep are

Allowing virtual court hearings and procedures

The ability for public health to close all educational establishments including private schools and nurseries- pre covid this power was only for local authority schools

Continued presumption against summary eviction by landlords- eg increased protection for tenants

None of these seem terrible abuses of power to me Smile
If they aren't continued through coronavirus powers they will be put through separately as bills which is a huge waste of parliamentary time.

There is also a consultation included about the impact assessments for UNCRC, rural legislation and equalities.

Nothing like the proposals in England which are included in the public order bill. We can still gather and protest, noisily.

visitingagain · 20/08/2021 16:02

Although the virtual court hearings would be lovely in practice I don't think the court system is ready for them Confused

Snookie00 · 20/08/2021 16:12

The CMO is a former GP. Who the hell takes advice on legal/ constitutional matters from a doctor? Is that really their argument - a doctor guided them on points of law?

The SNP are just like all politicians -power-crazy and don’t want to relinquish wide reaching controls.

visitingagain · 20/08/2021 16:19

Well @Snookie00 I don't know who takes advice on Public Health or legislation from the Telegraph. But since the Chief Medical Officer manages the response to Public Heath and makes recommendations on legal matters all the time, I don't know who you suggest should do it? Sage and the English CMO do exactly the same.

Snookie00 · 20/08/2021 16:27

They should be a stakeholder in shaping of laws. They are not constitutional experts and there are more implications of these powers than just public health.

Like your dig about the telegraph though - do you think we’re all closet Boris fans? Is there no end to the lengths NS/ SNP acolytes will go to defend her?

visitingagain · 20/08/2021 16:38

I wouldn't put the telegraph in my cat litter tray @Snookie00 it's not known for it's accurate unbiased views. Maybe find a more accurate source for what is proposed? They will get it through parliament anyway but this will avoid a load of additional work.

TheGenealogist · 20/08/2021 16:40

@Snookie00

The CMO is a former GP. Who the hell takes advice on legal/ constitutional matters from a doctor? Is that really their argument - a doctor guided them on points of law?

The SNP are just like all politicians -power-crazy and don’t want to relinquish wide reaching controls.

And the national clinical director, the sainted Jason, is a dentist.
Wakeupin2022 · 20/08/2021 16:50

Maybe look at the National instead of the Telegraph! I am sure that will give you an unbiased account 🤔

You could argue that UK govt could say that the pandemic could be managed centrally and a 1 nation approach (UK) would be better - No I don't believe that would be the better, but I can't imagine there would be acceptance of that!

Ultimately, people have got very legitimate concerns about how authoritarian the SNP govt want to become. This has been the case before this 'consultation' was announced. They are very keen keen put unnecessary laws in place just to differ from England and also not consult Parliament on things when they should.

I think more people should be up in arms at this as they are chopping away at things more and more.

But hey, she's better than Boris and that's all that matters... ...

rightenough · 20/08/2021 17:13

Maybe find a more accurate source for what is proposed?

A poster above linked the actual consultation... where it literally says the safeguard for closing schools will be the advice of the CMO.

To which I immediately thought PHEW. Panic over. Finally, a doctor or a scientist to come and dictate to us exactly how we should live our lives and which of our human rights should be restricted from 8pm tonight via a 2pm press conference.

Not anyone else, who may or may not be an expert in the consequences of any such restrictions.

And like... certainly not the people of the country, like what you'd do in a democracy.

I wonder who advised them on the virtual courts? Mr fucking Tumbles?

Must be, since many police officers are well aware it's going to be a nightmare and they do not have the space or the stations to support it. But hey - our Chief Clown says it's okay so crack on 🤡

I can't believe I used to support the SNP. They're slowly but surely turning me into a tory and I absolutely hate them for it, but they seem hell bent on becoming part dictator part parent. It's insufferable.

visitingagain · 20/08/2021 17:29

Another boring anti SNP thread. It's amazing how these pop up in everything to do with Scotland especially as we in the SNP have just announced that we are going into coalition with the Greens so that's an unassailable independence majority. Sad times.
I'm always amazed at the number of ways people on Mumsnet find to hate us. If they actually read the proposals and thought about them rationally they would be amazed.
I don't fully agree with the court hearings but I do agree with the anti eviction legislation. How anyone can be in favour of unscrupulous landlords evicting tenants so they can set up an air B and B or increase rents I don't understand. As for the National I'd rather read the Times for fun or the guardian if I want to be depressed but I suppose that doesn't fit your picture of "Nats"

Snookie00 · 20/08/2021 18:08

At least you’ve dropped the pretence of neutrality and reason by saying we and us when mentioning the SNP @visitingagain. Do they pay you guys to come on sites and spread the gospel or are you willing volunteers? There is almost nothing the SNP can do to which their acolytes will not defend to the hilt. It’s almost like they want to live in a country when the government is all powerful and civil liberties are swept to one side.