To choir or not to choir!

[Happyharry2003]

Hello
After a long 18 months my community choir is starting again next week. I am double vacced. It will be held in a church hall with no ventilation other than tiny slot of window, will be around 70 other people with no masks and no sd. And lots of singing.

I am not concerned overly about myself although I am overweight but I’m doing all the other things I used to do albeit not with big indoor groups.

However I work with vulnerable young people who aren’t vaccinated and my own daughter although not CV has asthma and other health issues.

Would you go? I know it’s inevitable I will get Covid by some other means and life must go on but putting myself in a big indoor crowd for a hobby doesn’t quite feel right.

I don’t envy you that decision! Strictly speaking it’s fine and within what’s allowed now but the set up you describe does make me uncomfortable. Are they asking for LFT’s before attendance? That would go a small way to relieving some of my concerns… along with knowing what infection rates in the area are like.

I’m probably more worried about more isolation than I am actually being ill at this point so that might be a consideration for you (bearing in mind the new changes on Monday would only mean you isolating if you yourself test positive).

70 in an unventilated room does sound a bit too risky to me. I'm about to resume singing with my choir, but the room is pretty well ventilated, there will be some social distancing and we're encouraging everyone to do regular LFTs. We're also keeping rehearsal times short (one hour) for the time being.

Is it the only choir available? Might there be a smaller one that has a better setup for you?

I’m in an almost identical situation and most of the choir are >60. We are also due to go on a fully paid up tour which has been postponed due to covid.

I’m partly worried about being part of an event that leads to someone being extremely ill in hospital or dying and partly worried about the inconvenience of further self-isolation.

My personal feeling is that it is a likely superspreader event. So I’m now trying to weigh up the chances that someone there had covid based on local rates and will keep reviewing each week.

That's quite a bit outside my level of comfort zone at the current time. That said I watched Singin in the Rain in a packed Sadler's wells with no scruples. (60 double vaxxed).

I'd go. But then I've never taken any precautions other than the bare minimum legal requirements. I'm CEV, not fully vaxed and have worked in a job that's way riskier than a choir!
I don't think the world should continue being limited. Enjoy singing.

i think it is your personal decision.
the vulnerable people you work with might make it a no from me.

I wouldn't take the risk personally...infection rates are still so high, which won't be the case forever.

My dad runs choirs.

They are starting again soon with doors open etc for ventilation and polite request to do LFTs before coming etc.

Subject to space they will spread themselves out a bit more than usual too.

Not taking any action to mitigate risks doesn’t sit right with me tbh especially as average age of attendees is quite high (virtually everyone will be double vaccinated though). But I am the more risk averse end of the spectrum.

There should definitely be much better ventilation.

I'd do it (and will do it when my choir restarts in September) but I think it is worth flagging the ventilation point. E.g. can doors be kept open, or opened for regular ventilation breaks? Also, the choir should be making clear that anyone with cold symptoms or who had recently been in contact with a positive case should not attend.

I would not go with cases so high, no.

I would be happy to allow others the opportunity of testing how good an idea indoor choirs, church services and large gatherings are just for a while.

I wouldn’t go, not with the numbers and lack of ventilation.

We had 65 in a room singing a few weeks ago. There was no social distancing or mask wearing after five minutes and people just relaxed. We were all fine.
In your position OP I understand your hesitation, but realistically, are you going to avoid everything forever, because we will never be zero Covid. Surely you are testing frequently for your job? Cases are not high at all, they are very low. In my area, always known for very high case rates and a lot of vaccine hesitancy, just 0.003% of people are testing positive.

@SonnetForSpring

There should definitely be much better ventilation.

Indeed is such a no brainier and i’m continually surprised at how so many people haven’t grasped it yet

In the dead of winter is trickier but right now just leave a door open ffs!

In my area, always known for very high case rates and a lot of vaccine hesitancy, just 0.003% of people are testing positive.

Nationally in in 75 people are covid positive at the last ONS count, this figure is of 0.003% does not reflect reality of community infection, or you are in an area of abnormally low cases.

I do not suggest others can not opt to do more than I would presonally do, but the reality is Covid is widespread in the community currently.

Shoulr read - nationally one in 75

I'm double vaccinated, just back from a uk caravan holiday and we all have tested positive for COVID. Given working with vulnerable people, no I wouldn't do it. The worry of passing something on would be too much for me, not the the worry of getting it myself.

Just to throw something else in - I'm on my choir committee and we've just surveyed members. Of the 70 regulars, about 45 say they will definitely return, another half a dozen are very undecided and the rest have said "not yet".

If there are others in your choir who are feeling cautious, it may actually end up being a lot less than 70 people in the room. Which helps a bit with the spacing, but not with the ventilation.

I really wouldn’t. Choirs are meeting and researching outside in parks here. One person with covid will aerosolise the entire room singing. Not during a current third wave where vaccinated people are getting ill. Eating out, school yes. But singing is one of the worst things to do sadly.

Sounds a bit daft. Why can't they ventilate better?
With the relaxation of close contact rules on Monday, it's going to be everywhere, if I was worried about catching covid I'd give it a miss. As it is, if you're double vaccinated you'll probably be OK. Not necessarily the person you pass it in to though. Tricky.

@AChickenCalledDaal

Just to throw something else in - I'm on my choir committee and we've just surveyed members. Of the 70 regulars, about 45 say they will definitely return, another half a dozen are very undecided and the rest have said "not yet".

If there are others in your choir who are feeling cautious, it may actually end up being a lot less than 70 people in the room. Which helps a bit with the spacing, but not with the ventilation.

This is interesting. I did wonder about how many would be wanting to go back.

I think if there are a few choir outbreaks, people may start to rethink.

The early adopters are the guinea pigs!

I agree with how it seems silly there is no ventilation. It’s a room in the middle of a church if that makes sense so no outdoor doors to open - just one into a corridor and the windows are stained glass and not openable. At 45 I am one of the younger singers as well. I work in a school and have done throughout the pandemic so lat test bi weekly but that’s all a bit pointless as if I tested positive or any of the students then we’ve already already spread it around! As I say, I’m not overly concerned for myself but rather for the elderly members of the choir after mixing with so many students myself and also taking something back to my students and colleagues.

They did say if you have cold symptoms to stay away but no mention of lat flo tests.

But singing is one of the worst things to do sadly.

Well - yes, but studies have now demonstrated that it is not worse than many other things that people are now doing (indoor sports, nightclubs, crowded pubs). The aerosols from singing are comparable to speaking, shouting and puffing while doing Zumba.

Personally, I'm happier resuming choir rehearsals with a decent risk assessment than I am going to a pub or night club. But the decent risk assessment is key.

As I say, I’m not overly concerned for myself but rather for the elderly members of the choir after mixing with so many students myself and also taking something back to my students and colleagues.

The elderly members of the choir have chosen to be there, so I don’t think you voluntarily staying away to protect them would be proportionate really.

The only thing that would give me pause in your situation would be working with vulnerable children. Other than that, I’d happily go. My choir’s back practising now.

Thanks all - yes you are correct about the older people choosing to be there. I can’t stay away because of them when they choose to go! I will have a think