Have any other countries done what we’re doing with lack of restrictions and no close contact isolation?

[Reastie]

We’re no longer world-leading at amount of vaccines for the population (although doubtless we’ve done very well at this) so there are other countries out there who have a large proportion of their population vaccinated. Is anywhere else doing what we’re doing? Even in a vague way? Opening up without any legal restrictions except self isolating for those positive. How are they fairing? I heard of problems in Israel which is concerning as they were doing really well post vaccines initially. Our testing criteria is a lot more limited than other countries and largely considered out of date which I don’t think will help. I’m not sure the govt have quite realised that if it spreads in autumn pretty freely many will be off work unwell and there could be school closures, transport disruption etc from so many off work unwell.

Not ones with high vaccine rates but I know many developing countries hardly have any restrictions (can't afford them) or vaccines (can't afford them and if they can they are at back of queue because. the west is basically hoarding vaccines). Many are doing relatively well both on infection rates and death rates. No one knows why

Sweden in a way, having had fewer restrictions all along.

I think Iceland did. They have very high vaccimation rates and seemed to have dropped restrictions in June ( not sure about dropping close contact isolation though ) . They have just recently brought back some restrictions as numbers got so high.

www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/iceland-deals-with-growing-delta-outbreak-as-high-vaccination-rates-stop-deaths/news-story/b970a814615715e573d67b3a1c1525f0

Some areas of the US.
Also, our testing criteria may be more limited, but availability of testing and the number of tests we carry out is far higher than a lot of countries.

Developing countries barely have any restrictions - or people sticking to them. Their vaccination rates are very low (my parents’ country of origin has 25% of the population jabbed and no one else wants it so they’re ‘done’). People don’t test if they get symptoms - they just crack on.

For contrast I live in Germany where our vax rates are very similar to UK (3-4% behind) and masks and Covid passes are still here but everything else is kind of relaxed. That said, our incidence is about 5% that of UK’s at the moment.

Cultural venues can operate at 100% capacity if they check passes and everyone wears masks throughout the performance. Schools in my state went back on Monday with all the kids in. The app never ‘pinged’ people. Close contacts - except household members - have been able to avoid isolation for months, if they undergo daily testing. Supervised testing that is, home tests aren’t valid here because there’s no way to know the person is being honest when logging their results.

So I’d say developing countries are more lax, most western European nations still have more restrictions than the UK but not when it comes to isolation.

That’s fascinating re Iceland. I do think current vaccines won’t see us totally out of this alone.

@GingerScallop I do wonder how much developing countries haven’t had as bad stats because they have a lower average population age and lower amounts of obesity and diabetes etc.

@EileenGC

Developing countries barely have any restrictions - or people sticking to them. Their vaccination rates are very low (my parents’ country of origin has 25% of the population jabbed and no one else wants it so they’re ‘done’). People don’t test if they get symptoms - they just crack on.

For contrast I live in Germany where our vax rates are very similar to UK (3-4% behind) and masks and Covid passes are still here but everything else is kind of relaxed. That said, our incidence is about 5% that of UK’s at the moment.

Cultural venues can operate at 100% capacity if they check passes and everyone wears masks throughout the performance. Schools in my state went back on Monday with all the kids in. The app never ‘pinged’ people. Close contacts - except household members - have been able to avoid isolation for months, if they undergo daily testing. Supervised testing that is, home tests aren’t valid here because there’s no way to know the person is being honest when logging their results.

So I’d say developing countries are more lax, most western European nations still have more restrictions than the UK but not when it comes to isolation.

That’s interesting. Having daily supervised testing seems very different to the UKs ‘we recommend you do it, you can do the test yourself’ kind of attitude.

@EileenGC I saw recently that Germany and France are getting rid of free Covid tests without prescription this autumn. How has that went down in Germany? Do people agree with the approach? I find it really interesting (and think it shows most countries are preparing for it to be another moderate-mild illness) but not sure people would be happy with it in the UK

I think they announced it a couple of days ago here in Germany, free testing will end mid-October. I’ve been away a lot these weeks, so haven’t been able to gauge the reaction locally, and to be honest I am conflicted on how to feel about it.

If we’re indeed preparing for it to be a mild illness and tests aren’t required anymore, then great. Keep tests available for travel, do them for hospital stays… The issue will come when they say it’s vaccination passport or negative test (which is what you need currently) - and there will be uproar because it will be viewed as a step towards making vaccines compulsory. Not per se, but without the jab (or a lot of money) you’ll be excluded from a lot of activities.

I wish everyone got vaccinated and I didn’t have to feel conflicted about it, but I also believe everyone should have free choice when it comes to vaccines.

I don’t know how it’s going to work in real life, they haven’t announced the details yet. I work in performing arts and back in winter we ran a couple of pilot events with large audiences indoors. Testing wasn’t free when we did this, but a free testing appointment was included in the concert ticket. Will companies keep offering that, for months on end? I doubt it. Will restaurants include free testing if a test is 30€ and a meal doesn’t go higher than 15€? Can’t see that happening.

I would expect free tests to be available to those who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons. Mask exemption here needs to be certified by a GP, so I’d expect GPs to also issue free testing prescriptions.

What happens to those who simply don’t want the jab? In my company 90% of staff have been vaccinated. During the last 12 months we’ve been PCR-tested 3 times a week, privately, which has cost around €1 million. Understandably they want to put a stop to the testing come September for the vaccinated. What happens to the 20 people who’ve refused it? We can’t socially distance or wear masks at all when we’re on stage. Should they just roam around freely day in day out? Should the company keep spending tonnes of money on testing them? Revenue is still low, government help is now all gone because we’ve reopened, but of course we’re still not making as much money as before. It’s really not simple and I don’t know yet what the solution will be.

Ps testing for the symptomatic will remain free for now. You always had to go through your doctor or the corona hotline to arrange this though. You couldn’t book a free PCR test yourself, or show up at a normal testing station. It has always been ‘prescribed’ so that will continue.

Thanks @EileenGC i find it so interesting, so it’s nice to hear a local perspective, especially since vaccination/negative test is required for entry. Quite a bold strategy coming up to elections, hopefully it will pay off. Yeah I saw that testing will remain for symptomatic cases which is obviously the right approach.

Umm we have one of the highest testing rates in the world abs have for a while so no our testing is not limited! Many European countries are also planning to charge for test which has been the plan here yet (may be in time) we also do (along with most western countries) have a very high vaccination rate. While Indonesia contuies to register over 1000 deaths a day, and has less than 10 percent of the country vaccinated I am bemused at your “we are doing awfully on a world wide scale”, it doesn’t fit with the current state if the pandemic and stu the moment there are a lot countries where you would be worse of living with very little hope of getting a vaccine this year!

We were never going to continue to be world leading at vaccines given that it is not something that can continue to grow. 70% of the population is a wall that most seem to be hitting.

I think England/Wales are unusual in removing mask measures. States in the US vary - see Florida and Texas for few restrictions. Florida has as many cases as us

There is a definite shift though to dealing with this

I swear I read in the news that for France you don’t actually have to legally isolate even if you yourself test positive for Covid!? If anyone knows that isn’t true, do correct me. I thought that was pretty crazy though if that is actually the case!

Actually I just saw this has been the case since December 2020! It’s a recommendation not forced! 😬

Wow, that’s fascinating about France. I wonder if they’re generally behaving responsibly about it

I think there is a growing realisation that tne vaccines do not stop all transmission with Delta as was originally hoped. It will keep most people out of hospital which is more than we might have dared hope for last year. That being the case we can never achieve herd immunity so that goal is off the table. It does mean that the unvaccinated will place a disproportionate burden on health services though.