What do you make of this?

[Nerdygirl]

news.sky.com/story/covid-19-delta-infections-produce-similar-levels-of-virus-regardless-of-vaccination-status-suggests-early-analysis-12374244

Surely this questions the point of things like vaccine passports?

Well it could, , but that only matters if you assume that Delta is the only variant in town, now and going firwards.

Which of course is not the case.

I assume it makes passports false level if safety.
Also non isolating of close double jabbed contacts or quarantine double jabbed passengers maybe a huge mistake.

Y@3asAbird that’s my thoughts too . People think just because they are vaccinated they can socialise in large groups, travel etc but this implies it makes no difference on the level of infection

This article makes me question whether I need to be vaccinated.

I’ve been on the fence for a long time and am booked in for next week.

My gut instinct is already telling me the jab makes little difference- with Delta. I think with future variants it will be even less effective.

But it's not clear exactly what it's saying. I think it's saying: you can get it whether you are vaccinated or not. If so, we've always known that. The argument has been that you are less likely to get seriously sick of vaccinated which still appears to be true. Or have I misread it?

My gut instinct is already telling me the jab makes little difference- with Delta.

Your gut instinct seems to be massively contradicted by the hospitalisation data.

@Dustyboots

This article makes me question whether I need to be vaccinated.

I’ve been on the fence for a long time and am booked in for next week.

My gut instinct is already telling me the jab makes little difference- with Delta. I think with future variants it will be even less effective.

Still worth getting vaccinated. All evidence points to the virus being less fatal when fully vaccinated.

@Dustyboots

This article makes me question whether I need to be vaccinated.

I’ve been on the fence for a long time and am booked in for next week.

My gut instinct is already telling me the jab makes little difference- with Delta. I think with future variants it will be even less effective.

@Dustyboots

The vaccine hugely reduces your chances of infection, long term complications, death and passing it onto others.

The fact that viral load at certain timepoints appears to be comparable in delta infected people with or without vaccination does not negate these points

Lots on here have the vaccine to keep others safe, not much point in that then

@User67543989

Lots on here have the vaccine to keep others safe, not much point in that then

Vaccination reduces transmission, it does indeed benefit others as well as yourself.

I think MN needs to put up some kind of PSA on this as it keeps getting repeated. Vaccination greatly reduces your chances of being infected with COVID. If you do not have COVID you cannot pass it on to anyone else.

This study has identified that in people who are infected there is not a substantial difference in viral load between vaccinated and non vaccinated, at a specific point in time. This is not conclusive evidence that there is no difference in transmission, as emphasised by the authors.

Have you read the sky article @leafyygreens?

*Public Health England's (PHE) said initial findings suggested "levels of virus in those who become infected with Delta having already been vaccinated may be similar to levels found in unvaccinated people".

"This may have implications for people's infectiousness, whether they have been vaccinated or not," it added.*

It's not conclusive, I agree. But highly possible - it sounds.

@Dustyboots

Have you read the sky article *@leafyygreens*?

*Public Health England's (PHE) said initial findings suggested "levels of virus in those who become infected with Delta having already been vaccinated may be similar to levels found in unvaccinated people".

"This may have implications for people's infectiousness, whether they have been vaccinated or not," it added.*

It's not conclusive, I agree. But highly possible - it sounds.

Yes @Dustyboots that is the article I was explaining.

As I said,

Vaccination greatly reduces your chances of being infected with COVID. If you do not have COVID you cannot pass it on to anyone else.

This study has identified that in people who are infected there is not a substantial difference in viral load between vaccinated and non vaccinated, at a specific point in time. This is not conclusive evidence that there is no difference in transmission, as emphasised by the authors.

Does make vaccine passports pointless though doesn’t it. If you can get infected and have the same viral loads then whether you are vaccinated or not you can still pass it on. Also if the level of viral load is the same , then surely the body reacts the same way whether vaccinated or not so if you were likely to suffer badly then you still would?

Agree, it doesn’t say anything about how reduced transmission though so let’s hope that holds up.

I think MN needs to put up some kind of PSA on this as it keeps getting repeated. Vaccination greatly reduces your chances of being infected with COVID. If you do not have COVID you cannot pass it on to anyone else.

But @leafyygreens you say you’re a scientist!? and yet you want this posted by MN like it’s some fixed and unchanging mantra.

Science is ever changing and should be questioned. We have no grasp of fixed solid facts or truth about COVID or these vaccines. We know so little still about all of it and will only learn by questioning and debating.

@Dustyboots

I think MN needs to put up some kind of PSA on this as it keeps getting repeated. Vaccination greatly reduces your chances of being infected with COVID. If you do not have COVID you cannot pass it on to anyone else.

But @leafyygreens you say you’re a scientist!? and yet you want this posted by MN like it’s some fixed and unchanging mantra.

Science is ever changing and should be questioned. We have no grasp of fixed solid facts or truth about COVID or these vaccines. We know so little still about all of it and will only learn by questioning and debating.

@Dustyboots I don't think it should be posted as a "fixed and unchanging mantra", I think it should be posted as a correction to a specific piece of misinformation that is repeatedly posted on here.

Yes I agree with the appropriate caveats -

"Vaccination greatly reduces your chances of being infected with the current strains of coronavirus in the UK. If you do not have COVID you cannot pass it on to anyone else."

Vaccine efficacy has not been reduced down to 0%, and it is unlikely this will happen. And if it is then I think worrying about the messages from MN not being up to date are a very small concern in what will be a total shit show.

This is the current messaging from PHE and the NHS, so do take it up with them if you think it's incorrect!

The problem is that the virus and knowledge is, and always has been a moving target . And how we respond must be as well .

We are lucky to have the wealth of information and genome testing we have in this country .

Things will Change as will information. We have to live with that .

@Nerdygirl

Does make vaccine passports pointless though doesn’t it. If you can get infected and have the same viral loads then whether you are vaccinated or not you can still pass it on. Also if the level of viral load is the same , then surely the body reacts the same way whether vaccinated or not so if you were likely to suffer badly then you still would?

Agree, it doesn’t say anything about how reduced transmission though so let’s hope that holds up.

Not really.

Covid passports will protect those without vaccinations.

If vaccinated people have similar viral loads to unvaccinated, then all that means is that unvaccinated people are going to get covid, and by mid-winter, probably multiple doses in quick succession, if rates sky rocket. Good luck to the unvaccinated. A pretty pointless game of Russian roulette really.

www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/two-doses-pfizer-astrazeneca-shots-effective-against-delta-variant-study-finds-2021-07-21/

This explains what you are seeing.