To vax or not to? To formula or bf?

[Spottyzip]

Hi all,

I recently gave birth about a week ago. I did not get the vaccine whilst pregnant out of choice as I was very concerned with it being so new and affecting the baby.

Now I’m in the same predicament. Should I vaccinate whilst bf? I know ppl are doing it but it just didn’t sit right with me that it’s a new vaccine and long term effects are not known. Should I vaccinate and formula feed instead?

Other kids have school in Sep so worried they will deffo bring covid home.

Did any of you vaccinate while bf? Any side effects?

Do you know anyone that’s had adverse effects on baby because of it?

Or any friends in the US that vaccinated while bf, have baby’s developed normally/reached milestones since the US were ahead of us.

I’m so confused, thinking of getting vaxxed 4 weeks pp.

Thank you all

Hi thanks all for the advice.
My main concern is that baby is a newborn- if toddler or weaning I wouldn’t care as much.

Another concern is that it is mRNA which is a new type of technology. I understand that the mRNA is broken down quickly and excreted. But one form of excretion is through breast milk.

Breast milk is still very unknown and it’s components and mechanism is still not fully understood. Breast milk also naturally contains miRNA which may be there for a reason-which actually affects gene expression of the baby.

Here is an article below:

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01768-w

So in theory yes..the baby’s gene expressions could be affected by excreted Components if the mRNA.

However I am keen to pass on antibodies.

I just want to know someone that’s had vaccine while baby is a newborn, EBF and their child is now older teaching all milestones. I’m apprehensive because it’s new.

I’ve exclusively bf all my other children so I would feel bad not to .

@Spottyzip

Hi thanks all for the advice. My main concern is that baby is a newborn- if toddler or weaning I wouldn’t care as much.

Another concern is that it is mRNA which is a new type of technology. I understand that the mRNA is broken down quickly and excreted. But one form of excretion is through breast milk.

Breast milk is still very unknown and it’s components and mechanism is still not fully understood. Breast milk also naturally contains miRNA which may be there for a reason-which actually affects gene expression of the baby.

Here is an article below:

www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01768-w

So in theory yes..the baby’s gene expressions could be affected by excreted Components if the mRNA.

However I am keen to pass on antibodies.

I just want to know someone that’s had vaccine while baby is a newborn, EBF and their child is now older teaching all milestones. I’m apprehensive because it’s new.

I’ve exclusively bf all my other children so I would feel bad not to .

@Spottyzip totally your decision and lots of PP have linked resources on this

There is absolutely no concern that mRNA will enter breastmilk, and even if it did, would interact with miRNA naturally present in milk or in any way affect gene expression in your baby. You've linked a paper that describes the functions of maternal miRNA in breastmilk, but an mRNA vaccine has no bearing on this.

Testing of the milk of mothers who received either the Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna vaccine found no mRNA in their milk. mRNA has an estimated half-life of 8 to 10 hours and does not enter the breastmilk

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK565969/#:~:text=Testing%20of%20the%20milk%20of,does%20not%20enter%20the%20breastmilk.

Only you can decide. Personally I wouldn’t have any vaccine whilst pregnant or breastfeeding.

Your child won’t definitely bring covid home. My middle child was in school throughout the whole lockdown. None of the kids have had covid, in fact None of the family have ever had covid.

@Spottyzip

Thank you so much everyone. I’m slightly more reassured but still confused. I really hate putting things in my body that could potentially mess me up. Eg, I’ve heard the vaccines causing issues with periods also, and I feel like in the post partum phase when our hormones are all over the place- how will it affect our periods coming back etc. Also with it being so new and unknown (the mRNA hasn’t been used before) so maybe can affect baby? I have older kids that smother the baby in kisses and once they start school there’s no way to prevent us all getting covid.

I really hate this unknown

Why do you think your kids will get covid? My kids have never had it and my DD was at school throughout. None if us have had it, no one in my family has.

Just to give you another hopefully reassuring anecdote - I had my first dose of Pfizer when DS2 (fully breastfed) was 16 weeks, he's now 24 weeks and I'll have my second on Thursday. I'd have happily had it when he was younger - I had it as soon as my age group were eligible. I had very mild side effects (felt a bit tired and cold-y for 24 hours), absolutely no effect on him that I could see. For what it's worth, since you asked about milestones, he's hit every one so far earlier than his brother did; since I had the vaccine he's learned to roll and sit and he's now beginning to attempt to crawl (somewhat to my horror!). I haven't had a period but wasn't expecting to - with my first they didn't come back until I weaned. I'll be so pleased when I've had my second dose too, I felt very lucky not to have got Covid while pregnant or with a tiny baby and wouldn't have chanced it if I had a choice.

I had my first vaccine when my baby was four weeks old and the second when she was seven weeks old. No issues with my supply, baby is 9 weeks old. I have older kids going back to school in Sept so I'd rather baby has antibodies from breast milk.

I had my first dose of Pfizer 1 week after DS was born. I had a day of mild Diarrhoea afterwards and baby also had a slightly upset tummy but this passed quickly for us both.

DS is now almost 6 weeks old and is doing everything he’s meant to be doing, looking more at faces, making more noises, starting to smile and gaining weight like a trooper

I was really grateful to have the vaccine and be able to pass on antibodies through the milk so that DS has some level of protection too. Especially for when he starts nursery etc.

Im a midwife and EBF my 6 week old. I'm booked for my first Pfizer this week...would have had it sooner but couldn't get an appointment (not in UK). I'll also be expressing for my toddler to have some breastmilk as if there is a chance I can pass some immunity to him through breastmilk, I'll take it! Despite what lots of people think, mRNA technology isn't new, it has been studied for a long time. It is expensive though and there hasn't really been a need for it to be utilised until now. Breastfeeding offers your baby so much, I certainly wouldn't be stopping to give formula because of this. Maybe have a read of this: BBC News - Why are so many babies dying of Covid-19 in Brazil?
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-56696907

Had my first when my baby was 5 weeks - absolutely no side effects for me or baby. If there are any effects on periods that's just as likely down to bf.

Pregnant and breastfeeding women have been getting the vaccine in the US since it was first available. There haven't been any problems.

Stella Creasy did a webinar with a number of specialists in the field a few months ago. They go through the scientific evidence regarding the impact of the vaccine on fertility, pregnancy and breastfeeding. It's long, but it's worth a watch and you can fast forward to the bits that are most relevant to you:

Breastfeeding after having had the vaccine is considered safe, for the reasons set out in the video.

Everything @PinkDaffodil2 just said x2

I do think with the new rules they’re just going to let covid let rip through the schools and just accept it. My older children are still quite young so no social distancing whatsoever, and no isolation. Cases are very high, so I think it’s just a matter of time they will catch it and bring it home

I am very reassured that most babies who were breastfed during vaccine are reaching milestones etc. Though they are still so young. I hate the lack of long term data.

It sounds like you'd be less worried if you have the vaccine. So have it.

The advice is that having the vaccine is safe while bf, so I don't know why you wouldn't.

I have a 10 month old who is breastfed and am fully vaccinated as of yesterday!

Sars vaccines are not a new creation this pandemic. SARS covid19 is a variant of sars. The vaccines are based on established vaccines and science.

You're fine to have it and nurse

Back in January / February when there was a lot less information available what really reassured me was that the vaccine isn’t being injected into baby, rather it’s being broken down by my body, broken down into breast milk, and then literally eaten by baby. The mRNA vaccines are so delicate they have to be stored at minus whatever temperature or they break down, there hasn’t been any vaccine material found in the milk of women who have had it. But if some where somehow excreted into breast milk, it would find itself in babies tummy full of stomach acid and it’s not going to survive that!
The antibodies we make in response to the vaccine may cross over and survive which is a good thing and an advantage generally of breastfeeding, but the actual vaccine mRNA isn’t going to affect baby.

I just had my second and Ds is 14 months. He was 12 months at first vaccine.

For me I actively chose to carry on feeding longer due to Covid and vaccine. I feel that breastfeeding in general is better for immune system, and I hope that he gets some antibodies from the vaccine through milk, so I aim to feed at least another few months to make sure

Also. As Ds main carer, if I were to get ill with Covid it would really affect household and Ds. I’m hoping with vaccine Dh and I won’t get too ill if we catch it so can carry on looking after ds

I considered trying to relactate after vaccine so i could give children the milk with the hope this would give them protection. One child has been shielded all the way through.
I decided against as it had been almost 2 years and i realised i had got rid of my pump so would need to but a new pump with and wasnt sure if relactating would be possible at this stage.

I had it and have (partly) continued to breastfeed 20 month old DD in order to give her antibodies as well as myself - I don't see it as any different to having the flu jab. The breastfeeding network link posted by a PP is great and that's what I used to decide it was the right thing to do. If she were still a newborn I'd do the same. I'd want her to have more protection at that age if anything.

@PinkDaffodil2

You make a very valid point actually. I feel a lot more reassured now. Thanks

Just have anxiety because of that thalidomide scandal- and it took them like 15 years to remove it from the market!

I know this is different because it’s a vaccine and not a drug, and taken during breastfeeding not pregnancy

Thoughts on this? :

www.hartgroup.org/risk-to-babies-vaccinated-mothers/

[quote Spottyzip]Thoughts on this? :

www.hartgroup.org/risk-to-babies-vaccinated-mothers/[/quote]
Had a quick read of some of their other articles - they seem pretty anti lockdown, mask, vaccine etc. Seems like a lot of bias against anything other than natural herd immunity so they seem to have an agenda. The breastfeeding network advice is one I'd listen to instead as their whole MO is to support breastfeeding mothers and babies particularly with regards to medication and its impact. www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/coronavirus/

If you’re keen and able to breastfeed it’s great for immunity regardless of covid. Are you able to find out how long it’s secreted in breastmilk for? I believe from what I’ve seen that the ingredients of the vaccination leave your body within a couple of days so if you’re really uncomfortable about it you could look to pump additional milk for the couple of days after your vaccination and pump and dump, though this may be more complicated with a new born as they go through stages of cluster feeding to increase your milk supply. With having children in school you’re pretty exposed and the delta variant seems to be causing a greater number of hospitalisations in younger unvaccinated people so I’d be keen to gain protection. The added bonus of breastfeeding and being vaccinated is that your baby will gain antibodies through your milk. I wish I’d still been breastfeeding my toddler when I’d had mine.

Re the article I’d be wary of relying on this for information over and above medical professionals. The organisation it’s written by seem to be anti lockdown and anti masks etc so it doesn’t surprise me that this is their take on vaccinations while breastfeeding. I know when you’re worried it’s easy to latch onto any negatives particularly when so much is unknown but there are so many extreme opinions out there. The NHS and other medical professionals are very careful re their recommendations and as you’ve noted they initially started out be exercising complete caution and have only change advice as more evidence has emerged.

[quote Spottyzip]Thoughts on this? :

www.hartgroup.org/risk-to-babies-vaccinated-mothers/[/quote]
www.logically.ai/articles/hart-files-anti-vaccine-myths-westminster

"The chat logs and documents provided to Logically also revealed the deeper connections of HART to other activist and political groups, such as the UK Medical Freedom Alliance, UsForThem, lockdownsceptics (now the dailysceptic), and Liberal Spring. Despite the group claiming to maintain an “impartial” public presence “committed to complete transparency in respect of any affiliations or conflicts of interest of its members,” leading members of each of these groups are members of the HART Rocket.Chat, and all of them cite each other in publications, giving an impression of independent experts coming together in agreement on points, while actually coordinating behind the scenes."