CEV Captivity

[Gillgardens]

I wondered if others in the CEV category are finding that Freedom Day is actually captivity for them? The government's advice to avoid those who aren't double jabbed is ridiculous...how can anyone possibly know. So as the world opens up for others, for us it remains firmly closed. After 18 months I was just getting to the point I was going to risk going out, but now the freedoms for others gives me little choice but to remain shielding. It used to be "protect the vulnerable" but now it is "forget the vulnerable".

I really do not object to any decisions others make and it is of course now legal for others to return to a semi normality, and I hope others can enjoy that. For me though this is the worst, and most dangerous, time since the pandemic began. There is literally nothing I can do to protect myself other than follow doctor's orders and stay home. And now there is no official shielding, there is no legal protection for those of us who are CEV too - there is no back to normal for us!

It is so so scary....please tell me I am not alone.

I'm not convinced this was "to protect us" primarily, there is an element of trying to prevent people from dying in inconveniently large numbers and at inconvenient times for the rest of society. If it were feasible for the Government to have managed it, we would have taken it on the chin last March.

At the same time, there have indeed been many acts of kindness.

We had just started going out again too (some people believe this to be extreme, but DH is mid 30s and has been in ICU due to a virus before, so we didn't want to take chances... DS also has been hospitalised due to viral wheezing). DS was in school and that's all the risk we could afford to take as a family. Summer hols are here, so we'll go to some uncrowded outdoor places, but we aren't going to town centres, restaurants, crowded spaces until the rates go down again.

Honestly, the best thing that happened to me (for my mental health) was getting Covid at the end of the last year.

Since then I haven't shielded but have been very careful. It's been freeing.

Can you get an antibody test to see if the vaccine has worked for you?

• wear the FP95 mask everywhere
• only mix with double vaccinated friends
• email HR to assess safe working conditions for you- they are responsible for your safety. But not sure what happens to eg pregnant women who don’t want the vaccine or cancer patients for whom the vaccine has not worked.

In the long run, the economy needs to keep going so as to support the CEV of the future and the NHS. We will run out of money otherwise. I agree that government/GPs etc should do more to inform the CEV. Also, booster vaccines every 6 months with Pfizer. I would like GPs/consultants to take personal responsibility for the CEV patients on their books. I would also like routine checking of vaccine efficacy like in France (they test to see if the vaccine has worked or not).

I guess I don't really understand how last week the risk was more acceptable. You don't know who will sit/stand next to you

There are several reasons for me personally, but for me one of the dangers is that until today social distancing and mask wearing was the norm. And mainly people did comply with that. From today that isn't that the case and therefore no-one has the right to ask anyone else to follow "the old rules".

Also from today many employers insist their employees return to work and there is no exception for anyone who is CEV.

And the government's response to this, is for those who are CEV to ask others their vaccination status and not mix with them. I feel personally that is not, and actually should not, be practical. It is not right for me to ask a fellow commuter or colleague or fellow shopper their vaccination status. And even if they told me I cannot legally make them move seats on a bus, or desk in the office away....I can move of course but then have to ask someone else. That won't/can't work and nor should it.

Unfortunately, lockdowns and restrictions meant some low risk people were left without an income to "protect" the high risk ones

I actually fell into both categories. Am a high risk person who was left without an income...so maybe I was just protecting myself! LOL

Antibody tests for CEV to see if vaccines have worked, especially those of us working in high risk environments would be such a good idea, especially as we are more likely not to respond to vaccines.
The government seems to have forgotten that many of us contribute to society- we are teachers, healthcare workers, carers... and as they expect us to go to work as usual, this would be very reassuring. Even better, legal protections for those it hasn't worked for (right to work from home, non clinical role for HCPs and so forth).
Unfortunately I can't wear FFP3 masks because part of my vulnerability is serious lung damage. I can just about breathe in a normal surgical mask but that's the best I can do. CEV are again among the most likely to be genuinely unable to wear a mask, much as we would like to.

I posted this in another thread, my country’s equivalent of freedom day already happened. We are stuck inside, forgotten and unsafe.

It was easier at the start because there was this sense of community and getting through it together even though we were apart. Now we are just those people who are going to die anyway so why bother.

I'm immunosuppressed so one of those who the vaccine may not work on. I've had antibody tests and it's very reassuring to know they did work and I have some protection.

My mum is on immunosuppresants and is CEV. We are absolutely gutted for her and everyone else in her position. Literally thrown under the bus. Her and my dad have had no life this past 18 months, and she was just starting to feel OK doing a few bits. It's gutting that from September my kids won't be able to visit as it will be so rife in schools that it won't be safe. They are her life at the moment. I understand the excitement from many people but the government shouldn't have declared freedom without putting something in place 1st.

Your employer will still have to produce a risk assessment OP and most employers are following guidance from the H&S Exec wrt safe working practices

Is that a legal requirement Porcupineintherough ? Even if they go through the motions of a risk assessment, I have found there are now no legal exceptions to be made ie the CEV or CV are to be treated legally like everyone else. Happy to be told I am wrong though.

I am vehemently anti-lockdown but I think I support you here OP. What you are suggesting sounds vaguely reminiscent of the Great Barrington Declaration which suggested focused protection of the vulnerable. I do think more resources/guidance for employers should be channelled to those who need it rather than the blunt hammer approach used so far. If you are CEV then you should receive additional support and protection to WFH etc.

I do think that if you really are very vulnerable to Covid then the crappy masks worn by the public will do sweet FA to protect you and so I would not stress too much about them being ditched.

@Gillgardens

Your employer will still have to produce a risk assessment OP and most employers are following guidance from the H&S Exec wrt safe working practices

Is that a legal requirement Porcupineintherough ? Even if they go through the motions of a risk assessment, I have found there are now no legal exceptions to be made ie the CEV or CV are to be treated legally like everyone else. Happy to be told I am wrong though.

If you're CEV, then by default you have a disability. All employers have a duty of care when it comes to disabled employees. A risk assessment is part of that. Then they have to make "reasonable adjustments", just as they do with any other disability. What is "reasonable" depends on the circumstances. If they can't make "reasonable adjustments" or if their "reasonable adjustments" aren't enough, then the next stage is redundancy/retirement on the grounds of your disability.

Completely agree OP. I'm CEV with young children and am a secondary school teacher.I've given up. The advice is to avoid crowds, unvaccinated people etc. Right now I could keep my own children home and bored, but it seems a bit pointless when I'll be back in a crowded classroom with unvaccinated teenagers and no mitigations whatsoever in 5 weeks time. I just have to hope, for my children's sake, that my vaccines work when I get it. And it really is when, not if, with restrictions lifted as cases are rising. I don't have the opportunity to hide away as I need my job to pay the mortgage. Even worse, most of us CEV aren't eligible for life insurance, so my family are screwed if I die

So much I can identify with in your post QuarantineQueen. I am so sorry you have been going through the anxiety of this too and having to risk your life and health to continue to work. The other day I was actually thinking how much worse it would be if I were a teacher - as they have been treated appallingly throughout. I wish you well and hope you can enjoy the summer you so deserve! Good luck!

@FizziWater where did you get the antibody tests? All the ones I've seen say they will tell you if you have antibodies from infection but not from vaccine.

We had just started going out again too (some people believe this to be extreme, but DH is mid 30s and has been in ICU due to a virus before, so we didn't want to take chances... DS also has been hospitalised due to viral wheezing)

Thanks for understanding. So sorry though I hope you can enjoy the summer healthily.

Thank you @Gillgardens.
@FizziWater how did you get a vaccine antibody test? That would be such a relief to know.

@PastMyBestBeforeDate I volunteered for rearch back in early 2020. One of the things I do asked me to do monthly antibody tests from February. The tests can distinguish between covid antibodies, for which I am negative, and vaccine ones, positive.
For around £60 you can get one done privately. Look at zoomdoc, but be careful to select the vaccine antibody test.

Thanks @FizziWater and well done for volunteering.:)

@Gillgardens

I feel sorry for the cev/cv who have to go out to work. Do they have any legal protection for work if they can't work from home? Is it covered by the disability act?

No, there is no protection, legal or otherwise. Even if your medical consultant states they recommend you continue to stay home it makes no difference, as the government have put nothing in place for this situation.

Your consultant/GP can still provide you with a "sick note" though, just like they do with other issues, such as stress etc, if they believe you shouldn't be in work or need special changes to make work safer for you given your medical condition. In fact, given the effect of risks of covid upon a CEV person, then stress could well be a legitimate reason for being off sick.

@Kazzyhoward but I can WFH so no GP will give me a sick note and I can't live off statutory sick pay. Not to mention nobody can actually get a GP appointment
So work can force me back

If you're CEV, then by default you have a disability

That is a huge surprise to me kazzyhoward because in normal times I would never think of having a disability. Which makes me think what is a disability?

Just have a condition that would mean unlikely to survive covid because of a previous serious lung damage, combined with an auto-immune disease that means more likely to catch covid and the vaccine not working as well. I have never claimed any disability benefit and structured my life so work was always completed, and just knew there are certain things that were difficult, though not impossible. Though pre covid, in everyday life all was well. I'll have to have a think on this. Thank you.

no GP will give me a sick note and I can't live off statutory sick pay. Not to mention nobody can actually get a GP appointment.So work can force me back

Notmycat - you are obviously me!!!! Exactly the same for me, exactly.

Dh is ECV on immunosupressed due to medication. Never claimed any benefits as unlikely to qualify. We are lucky he can WFH.
He has been fairly relaxed and we had holidays etc outside shielding periods.
He is feeling flat today though.

My GP is booking appointments for September.