Page 2 | Visiting unvaccinated inlaws

Serenschintte · 18/07/2021 22:05

As you are vaccinated and brother is nottheb in theory you are more of a threat to him, than he is to you.
Life is all about risk.
Maybe ask him if he’s happy to see you.
But family is important you only have one family and life recently has shown that life is short.
Personally as someone on a different country where is it now extremely expensive and quarantine restricted Id love to see my family and would not give two hoots about vaccinated or not

AllThatFancyPaintsAsFair · 18/07/2021 22:06

You know that ‘dramatically reduce’ isn’t a synonym for ‘stop’ right?

They reduce it overall by stopping it for some people

Having a (say) 60% reaction in transmission doesn't mean that everyone is 60% less transmitting surely it means that it stops transmission totally for 60% of those who've been vaccinated.

Original poster

Ferriswheel101 · 18/07/2021 22:15

@lljkk

We need to live with the fact of other people taking risks for themselves that we wouldn't take for ourselves. It used to be normal to think this way.

I choose not to smoke - you can choose to smoke.
I choose not to rockclimb -- you can choose to rockclimb.
I like a glass of wine -- you choose to be teetotal.
I choose to cycle on a busy road -- you wouldn't dream of doing that.
etc.

I agree, but also people working in hospitals, schools, public transport have been living with different risk levels to people working from home. So our perception of the pandemic is perhaps more heightened. It is also perplexing when you take more personal risk in your job that some people are still so reluctant to be vaccinated.

OP posts:

Haffiana · 18/07/2021 22:31

Have just found out his brother isn't vaccinated as he is worried about it affecting his sperm count. I'm not comfortable meeting him inside the house as he isn't vaccinated

Do not meet with him. You may catch the stupid.

WildSwimming101 · 18/07/2021 22:36

He's willing to take the risk so it's fine. You can always ask him if he minds but I'm sure he wouldn't have even thought about it.

Are you sure you're worried for his sake and not your own?

Original poster

Ferriswheel101 · 18/07/2021 22:50

I'm worried for a few reasons as well as the fact he's putting himself at risk, his mum is vaccinated but high risk for pneumonia so even if she caught a low level dose of covid it could seriously affect her, he has a young baby, and our children won't be protected and Delta variant can be serious for babies and children as seen in India. I'm not worried for myself as every day I'm in a bubble with 60 children and 10 staff.

OP posts:

OverTheRubicon · 18/07/2021 23:02

@lljkk

We need to live with the fact of other people taking risks for themselves that we wouldn't take for ourselves. It used to be normal to think this way.

I choose not to smoke - you can choose to smoke.
I choose not to rockclimb -- you can choose to rockclimb.
I like a glass of wine -- you choose to be teetotal.
I choose to cycle on a busy road -- you wouldn't dream of doing that.
etc.

But when you choose not to get vaccinated, you're not just taking a risk for yourself, are you?

To use your busy road example, if I choose to drive at 80mph on a residential road, because I feel safe and in control, I'm not just risking myself.

A good number of people are high risk but cannot get vaccinated. My friend is in her early 30s but has a transplanted organ, another has a husband undergoing chemo - all ineligible. The vaccine is much less effective in older people and those who are immunosuppressed. Younger people who are partially or not yet vaccinated can still become very ill, or get long covid.

We do need to open up. But with strong expectation that people step up and vaccinate.

KentuckyCriedFricken · 18/07/2021 23:06

So if he remains unvaccinated for the rest of his life - which is his choice - when do you plan to see him? COVID is not going away. We still have the flu 100 years after the big pandemic. This is going to be another one of those things that “does the rounds” each year.

Holly60 · 18/07/2021 23:14

@bumbleymummy

PuzzledObserver
Vaccines don't stop transmission anyway

Dear God, how many more times? Yes, yes they do. They dramatically reduce transmission. A vaccinated person is somewhere between 60 and 75% less likely to transmit the virus than an unvaccinated person.

OK, that’s not 100%, so I suppose you’re right that they don’t stop transmission altogether, maybe that’s what you mean? But a group of vaccinated people is a much less risky environment than a group of unvaccinated people, there is simply no arguing that

You know that ‘dramatically reduce’ isn’t a synonym for ‘stop’ right?

vaccination STOPS 65-70 % of transmission. I don’t understand how some people are failing to understand this simple fact. This means that in 65-70 cases where the virus would otherwise be passed on to a person, the vaccine STOPS this from happening. It’s very simple … So the vaccine STOPS transmission, yes. Not all of it, but the statement remains correct

KentuckyCriedFricken · 18/07/2021 23:16

@OverTheRubicon you’re comparing apples and oranges. She didn’t say anything about doing things that are illegal. Driving over 80 miles per hour is illegal in the UK because being hit by a car doing 80 or more gives you little chance of survival. A lot less than the 90-something percent chance of survival that the average COVID case has. That’s why that speed is illegal. That’s like comparing the odd glass of wine with shooting up heroin. There a reason that wine is legal to consume and heroin isn’t.

What she was saying us that life carries risks. As adults we are able to make our own risk assessment. Each person is comfortable with a different level of risk. In the OP’s case the brother has made a decision that he is prepared to accept his individual COVID risk and chosen not to be vaccinated.

Holly60 · 18/07/2021 23:16

Sorry that should read 65-75 cases OUT OF 100

Original poster

Ferriswheel101 · 18/07/2021 23:22

[quote KentuckyCriedFricken]@OverTheRubicon you’re comparing apples and oranges. She didn’t say anything about doing things that are illegal. Driving over 80 miles per hour is illegal in the UK because being hit by a car doing 80 or more gives you little chance of survival. A lot less than the 90-something percent chance of survival that the average COVID case has. That’s why that speed is illegal. That’s like comparing the odd glass of wine with shooting up heroin. There a reason that wine is legal to consume and heroin isn’t.

What she was saying us that life carries risks. As adults we are able to make our own risk assessment. Each person is comfortable with a different level of risk. In the OP’s case the brother has made a decision that he is prepared to accept his individual COVID risk and chosen not to be vaccinated.[/quote]
He hasn't choose not to be vaccinated based on a covid risk it's based on his balls.

OP posts:

Dustyboots · 18/07/2021 23:26

Yeah I work in a school and six classes have shut down in the last two weeks. I lateral flow test and we have left 10day gap from term ending to travelling. But absolutely I could bring covid to him and he's unvaccinated and we won't be wearing masks or social distancing in the house.

I'm also unvaccinated. I don't expect others to go out of their way to protect me. I've made the choice to be unvaccinated. I live with the consequences.

They must've invited you OP. If they were worried about catching something from you they'd ask you not to come surely ... this is a very odd post.

TheKeatingFive · 18/07/2021 23:28

his mum is vaccinated but high risk for pneumonia so even if she caught a low level dose of covid it could seriously affect her, he has a young baby, and our children won't be protected and Delta variant can be serious for babies and children as seen in India.

So long as you’re clear about the risk your children may pose to these people, none of these are your calls to make.

And aren’t your children as much of a risk to MIL as he is?

Original poster

Ferriswheel101 · 18/07/2021 23:37

Yes, potentially they are which is why we have left a 10day gap between school finishing and visiting in case any symptoms show up to protect MIL which I discussed with her tonight, we will also lateral flow test whilst there. We have taken steps to protect them as best we can. He hasn't.

OP posts:

TheKeatingFive · 18/07/2021 23:39

We have taken steps to protect them as best we can. He hasn't.

The conditions under which she sees her own son are absolutely nothing to do with you.

Dustyboots · 18/07/2021 23:41

We have taken steps to protect them as best we can. He hasn't.

Errr - you're sticking your nose in his business aren't you?

TinaYouFatLard · 19/07/2021 00:43

I guess you’re just a better person OP.

lljkk · 19/07/2021 01:13

If someone gets lung cancer because they chose to smoke -- they will need expensive medical care which my taxes help pay for.

Ditto rock-climbing or extreme sports (injury risk) or risks of developing alcoholism. Their choice can lead to a burden on me.

So Those are examples of choices that did not only affect them -- but I don't stop them doing it. As long as they carry the majority of the burden of the risk they took, society allows all that risk taking. We can't realistically function without letting this happen a lot of the time.

i was trying to think about the comparison to a motorbiker who never had a helmet. A situation when the govt does NOT let people take that individual risk. Does no-helmet motorbiker have a 1 in 5000 risk of severe head injury -- is that why the helmet is required? Or more like 1:500?

And howw does that compare to covid risk of se vere harm?e
I know logic won't decide what happens, of course. That the decision will not be consistent with how any other risks are managed. I just wish that it could.

duffeldaisy · 19/07/2021 01:25

OP I think you’re being very reasonable to prefer to meet outside. It’s a pandemic, and while yes of course it’s his choice in taking the risk not to be vaccinated, but as a caring person you don’t want to give him covid.
That seems thoughtful. He’ll probably get it elsewhere anyway with the way numbers are rising, but you’re not overreacting or interfering.

I do hope your family manages to keep safe.