Chris Whitty on long covid

[herecomesthsun]

"Prof Chris Whitty, the government’s chief medical adviser, has told the Local Government Association that rates of long Covid will increase significantly, and that this won’t be a trivial problem. He told the LGA:

Since there’s a lot of Covid at the moment and the rates are going up I regret to say I think we will get a significant amount more long Covid, particularly in the younger ages where the vaccination rates are currently much lower.

Fundamentally the two ways to prevent long Covid in my view are to keep Covid rates right down and make sure everyone is vaccinated so they get very mild disease and I think we really just need to push hell for leather for those two.

The deaths from Covid I think are mercifully going to be much lower in this wave compared to the previous ones as a proportion of cases but long Covid remains, I think, a worry.

We don’t know how big an issue it’s going to be but I think we should assume it’s not going to be trivial."

looks like the Gov are going for some kind of herd immunity so are just letting it run rampant, so will be exposed again if your immunity is waning

It's all so depressing.

So sorry for the posters with children suffering long covid

yesterday's Coverscan webinar focused on long Covid and children and might be of interest as they are planning to do a clinical study (MRI scans) of children, initially 10-17yr olds then possibly younger children too:
coverscan.com/news-%26-updates?blog=y
(this follows on from the adult study)

I heard that because no on knows if those vaccinated early on will have waning immunity, that is why they are trying to encourage the peak to happen asap

Maybe they don't think they can give everyone a booster in time. Or maybe they don't think parents will get their children vaccinated.

Agree with everything on this thread. It is very worrying indeed. I find myself yet again sitting thinking what on earth are the government doing?? Well maybe they know something I don’t and this is actually the best way to navigate this pandemic. I have asked myself this many times since feb2020 and unfortunately the government decisions have been so wrong so many times.

[quote Cherubb]@PrincessNutNuts So pleased to read this. A parent that actually considers the future and what may happen if their child gets long covid.

Mine has had it, 16 months in, she is 9 years old FFS!! She is much improved now but cannot participate in sport still after being a cross country star and on swim team. This is going to be a huge problem for so many and I am so sorry for anyone else that is going to parent a child with this.

I agree with schools being open but removing all restrictions and letting it 'let rip' for the younger generations is abhorrent.[/quote]
9?! Oh my goodness that must be very hard. I'm so glad things have improved, and I hope things continue to get better for her, and she regains her full strength.

At least people know this exists now. At the beginning it must have been an uphill struggle just to get recognised.

Are you considering asking for vaccination for her or leaving well alone? I don't know what I'd want in your situation. I'd want to try anything that might help but also, I'd scared of making it worse.

@PrincessNutNuts I am uncertain. I have been OK with the vaccine (only had one so far) but I don't think I will risk it yet for my DD. I think maybe when she has gone through puberty but it seems very risky doesn't it for now. I am of course very concerned about reinfection though but have to hope it will be less severe for her. The 'acute' bit for her was relatively mild but after 3 weeks sort of at semi well she absolutely crashed with chest pain and fatigue and various other awful symptoms which went on and on and on. I know she caught Covid from me so I can only hope if it happened again it would be a lower viral load...

[quote Cherubb]@PrincessNutNuts I am uncertain. I have been OK with the vaccine (only had one so far) but I don't think I will risk it yet for my DD. I think maybe when she has gone through puberty but it seems very risky doesn't it for now. I am of course very concerned about reinfection though but have to hope it will be less severe for her. The 'acute' bit for her was relatively mild but after 3 weeks sort of at semi well she absolutely crashed with chest pain and fatigue and various other awful symptoms which went on and on and on. I know she caught Covid from me so I can only hope if it happened again it would be a lower viral load...[/quote]
I think I'd be the same in your position, and err on the side of caution.

Things move so fast these days so science will have answers sooner rather than later I hope.

I just can't bear that so many children are going to go through this.

And as a society we don't seem to be doing much about it.

@ollyollyoxenfree

Fundamentally the two ways to prevent long Covid in my view are to keep Covid rates right down and make sure everyone is vaccinated so they get very mild disease and I think we really just need to push hell for leather for those two.

These two points really go against the idea of removing all restrictions when we don't have everyone who wants to be doubly vaccinated

This statement is in complete contradiction to what is on the nhs website which states

'The chances of having long-term symptoms does not seem to be linked to how ill you are when you first get COVID-19.
People who had mild symptoms at first can still have long-term problems'
www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/long-term-effects-of-coronavirus-long-covid/

Having mild symptoms and mild disease are 2 different things

@SonnetForSpring

Having mild symptoms and mild disease are 2 different things

Yes.

Not really. Chris Whitty is saying that vaccinations will reduce covid severity and therefore reduce the incidence of long covid.

The data on long covid and what is reported on the NHS website shows that the likelyhood of getting long covid is not related to the severity of the disease or its symptoms.

It is worth listening to Dr Campbell discuss this
m.youtube.com/watch?v=IVxc_CmeYxo

@Lupinhere37 sorry to hear about your DD I also have long covid but I'm 35 so quite a bit older!
It can be very isolating and lonely and difficult to describe the symptoms. Nobody can tell you or give you a magic wand to make you feel like yourself and back to where you were before it. Mostly you look OK so it's difficult to get people to take you seriously! We have no long covid clinics in Scotland either.

If she's not already on them then supplements can help a bit with the fatigue - vit b complexes, magnesium and high strength vit D help with fatigue it takes about 4 weeks.
Curcumin which is the active anti inflammatory in turmeric can help calm the inflammation response.
Umbiquinol (which is quite pricey) helps mitochondrial repair.

I have found having bowen therapy has helped massively with the headaches and muscle aches.
I also do yoga therapy with sound bowls mostly to help teach me deep breathing skills to help with breathlessness but also the sound bowls are mega relaxing. Just having a 30 minute session where I feel relaxed and not constantly having long covid or it's symptoms on my mind makes a huge difference.

There is also a long covid support group which might help your DD to know she isn't alone. Pacing is also really important and recognising high impact activities include screens, reading and TV. Stuff we all don't really think twice about but she needs to take regular breaks and only do 15-30 min intervals if possible.

Sorry brain fog long covid support group on Facebook

This is really worrying me too. My son had covid for a month last time, and his friend has complications from covid that haven't resolved and don't look as though they're going to, after a year.

The last thing I want is to be stuck between keeping him off to convalese properly and risking having all the nasty letters about absence from school and welfare officers and all that.

I still have long covid effects after 16 months and I can't say I really recommend it. For a teenager it would be truly rubbish.

OK, it's the Mail, and it's just a one-off, but this is interesting:

Could an experimental heart drug cure long Covid? 59-year-old coronavirus survivor left battling fatigue saw his symptoms go 'within hours', German doctors say

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9760025/Could-experimental-heart-drug-cure-long-Covid-Man-condition-saw-symptoms-hours.html

@Scottishskifun thank you for this really helpful information. I hope you are soon on the mend.
We are awaiting more blood test results and neurology results but I will speak to my GP to check we’re ok to start the supplements.
I’m rubbish at yoga but I’m sure I can hire an instructor to get us started; we were oddly discussing yoga as a possibility tonight and she’s really keen. Thank you for taking the time to post these suggestions.
Today’s big worry is that she failed 2 of her 3 A Level mocks, as she was too exhausted to complete the exams. School didn’t bother telling us and she clearly didn’t realise how bad things had got. They say she’ll have to work all summer to catch up but she won’t manage to do that, for sure.
Her future has been destroyed by this but I guess teenagers with post viral symptoms have been battling similar for years and we’re going to have to re-adjust expectations.

Nhs won’t be the only thing to collapse, hospitality will too. All the 18-40s waiting for second jabs going off ill, isolating and with long Covid won’t help the economy.

Vaccines are slowing down because they’re running out of Pfizer.

Cases are rocketing.

A small percentage of a big number is still a big number

blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/07/06/we-should-shift-our-focus-from-covid-19-mortality-to-morbidity-particularly-in-children/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_term=hootsuite&utm_content=sme&utm_campaign=usage In case this isn't on here yet, BMJ article on morbidity in children

@Lupinhere37 it's a slow road unfortunately! The yoga I do is massively adjusted so more focused on breathing then movements but it does help.

It's also worth seeing if your GP would put her on to the vulnerable list for 16/17 year olds for a vaccination. The early research so far of long covid sufferers is showing that a vaccination especially the mrna one's of Pfizer and moderna are reducing symptoms in 50-60% of Longcovid sufferers so it's another thing worth exploring with the GP which might help.

Bowen therapy is private as well but might be worth an explore especially if her muscles are sore honestly I was shuffling like a granny for weeks due to the pain and the bowen makes a big difference. It works by certain points on the body and adjustments to pain receptors it's a bit weird but very gentle and might ease things a bit. Even a bit of relief feels amazing in the long covid day which can be so long!

@Scottishskifun thank you again. Really helpful and I’ve just contacted a Bowen practitioner. Fingers crossed!
@Wildewoodz you are not wrong there. We know so many teens working in holiday accommodation, hospitality, retail etc. Where we live, they’re propping the sector up. It’s going to be carnage. We’re aware of several youngsters currently isolating and unable to attend work. I really feel for these business owners, too. It’s an awful mess. Our area is rural; by no means a hotspot, although we have a neighbouring city where cases are sky high. It’s only a matter of time when the tourism ramps up in the coming weeks…..

I think it was really quite telling when CW prefaced everything he said at the press conference with: "let me make it quite clear that ministers make the decisions, cmos offer advice" or something along those lines.

Basically he was saying, 'I've said my piece and it has been largely ignored by this bumbling idiot in a poorly fitting suit. Can't do more than that'.

Thank you @herecomesthesun for the BMJ link. Interesting to see that the current estimate for UK incidence of Long Covid in children is around 1 in 830. My son was very unwell for months following Covid last March, but thankfully has recovered well enough to live the normal happy life of a 13 year old. He still gets bad headaches that last for days, but hopefully these will disappear in time. We feel extremely fortunate that he has made this recovery.