Herd immunity when you can get it more then once?

[Girlmama3]

Am I the only one who wonders why they’re so keen on herd immunity when you can catch covid more then once??

I would understand if it was a once only virus but this baffles me.

I would love to know the true incidence of catching Covid twice. And that is properly twice eg tested and a while between the two.

There was a research study out last week it said reinfection is very rare but I cannot remember who did the study it was on Sky news.

Maybe once most people have been exposed and it isn't a novel pathogen to us though we will have a better immune response to it even if we do get it again?

You catch a virus you build memory cells of that virus.
You catch the same virus again and the memory cells produce antibodies quickly so that you fight the virus before any symptoms occur (if they were going to occur).

You catch viruses all the time and never know about it, as long as you eat well, exercise, sleep - you shouldn't need to worry.

Herd immunity won't work long term due to variants hence why we need different vaccines for flu each year. Herd immunity works within a wave though.

You catch the same virus again and the memory cells produce antibodies quickly so that you fight the virus before any symptoms occur (if they were going to occur)

Really? I know 2 people who have caught it twice (tested, months apart) and they had symptoms both time. Not seriously I’ll, thankfully, but they certainly knew they were ill.

I’m no expert but I think you can theoretically get any virus more than once. But statistically as a population, presumably most people won’t get it more than once.

No, you're not the only baffled one. Covid clearly isn't like measles. It's more like norovirus and no one suggests fighting norovirus by just sitting back and letting everyone get it. With norovirus we try to break the chains of transmission with hygiene, limiting visitors to hospitals, keeping children off school until 48hrs have passed without symptoms etc. In the case of covid, the main way of breaking chains of transmission is test, track and trace, something the UK has only ever done half-heartedly at best and is soon planning not to do at all with no more isolation for children and the fully vaccinated, allowing lots of infections and thus a greater possibility of a vaccine-resistant mutation developing. We could get lucky and the virus could naturally mutate into something less serious, but it's a gamble and in the meantime people could get ill over and over, even those who have been vaccinated as it only reduces symptoms. I hope that's not the case, but this government have been wrong and behind the curve so many times it's hard to have any faith they have the faintest clue what they're doing.

There was a study a while back which found that having covid gave you similar protection to two doses of Pfizer (so not complete protection but less likely to catch it and less likely to spread it). It is summarised here. www.gov.uk/government/news/past-covid-19-infection-provides-some-immunity-but-people-may-still-carry-and-transmit-virus

It's also not all or nothing - so if you catch covid again six months after having had it, you are significantly less likely to be seriously ill.

Those factors together may make it a manageable illness which doesn't grow exponentially, which is a kind of partial herd immunity.

My DS started nursery a few months ago and has been constantly ill ever since. I'm told that will stop at some point as his immune system builds up. It isn't that he will never get a cold or flu again but he will get them less frequently and potentially not so seriously as the first time he was exposed. I suppose if you extrapolate that to a population level, that is where we may end up with covid.

I don't think anyone is suggesting that vaccination and / or prior infection will eliminate covid.

Dr John Campbell mentioned today on you tube getting covid after being vaccinated is on a par with a booster jab.

Interesting, thanks everyone. I’m glad I’m not alone in being confused!

A close friend had it twice, 6 months apart and was hospitalised the second time. It’s no joke.

My brother currently has it for a second time. He first had it last summer and now has it again and feeling much worse this time. He's had one vaccine.

coronaviruses are one of the types of virus that cause the common cold.
these ones are just, well, nastier versions.
No-one would ever expect to be immune from colds forever after getting a cold, would they?…

so yeah, herd immunity is not something you’ll get through one Covid infection. maybe for several months, but not for ever.

I don’t think there’s any easy solution here…

I think they will find for most people it isn’t a real threat but for some families it is quite deadly.

I am almost certain we all had it in December 2019. Ds, dd (young adults) and myself late middle aged and obese had it very badly.
Dh who is obese, with cancer and no spleen had it but it was a 24 hour annoying bug. His mother who is 95 and in a care home with dementia tested positive for it and we were told she had a cough and was feeling a little off but the next day she was perfectly fine.

It makes me wonder if the 2 people who are related and considered clinically vulnerable get over this with little illness and dc and I were floored by it I can only think it must be a genetic issue that makes people more susceptible to it.

I wonder how many families have been affected by it compared with the amount of deaths from each of those families
IYSWIM

I think herd immunity works if everyone gets it within a short space of time and then the virus hasn’t anywhere to go. Either people have had it or people have been vaccinated against it so there is no one to pass it on to

It makes me wonder if the 2 people who are related and considered clinically vulnerable get over this with little illness and dc and I were floored by it I can only think it must be a genetic issue that makes people more susceptible to it.

Yes, I find this sort of thing very interesting. I was going to add in their Vitamin D status, but I'm thinking a person of 94 in a care home might not have a great Vit D level. There must be genetic factors, also some previous cross-immunity that some people have. There's an awful lot more to find out!

It’s not like flu or norovirus because those are whole families of loosely related viruses. When you have a flu vaccine each year you’re being vaccinated against different diseases each time.

Covid 19 has various strains but they’re all still recognisably the same disease. Yes people can catch it twice but on average you can build up a noticeable level of short term protection.

It's not like flu or norovirus because those are whole families of loosely related viruses.

Covid is more like norovirus than measles or similar diseases which we associate with the term "herd immunity" though. Once you've caught measles you should be immune for life and vaccines are proven to be long-lasting - decades at least, if not longer. Therefore , as long as enough of the population is vaccinated illnesses like measles can't circulate and so people who can't (or won't) be vaccinated are protected by "herd immunity". People who have had covid have caught it again, however, this is a known fact and we don't yet know how long vaccines will be effective. So "herd immunity" can't be relied upon to protect those who aren't able to have the vaccine. Only stopping the virus circulating can, which means test, track and trace or other measures to break the chains of transmission. It's very clear the government has decided not to protect those vulnerable people who aren't protected by the vaccine for various reasons (usually because they are on immune suppressing drugs). Using the term "herd immunity" is misleading, imo and gives a false sense of security. It would be better for the government to be honest about the limitations of vaccines in the case of covid and the difficulties we face as a society in dealing with this new disease.

My niece has covid for the second time now. This time is much worse than the first for her! I suspect she’s now got the delta variant, and her infections were around 6 months apart.

I am curious as to whether my response to covid would be similar to hers (close relative and all that!) but I am 10 years older than her, so perhaps not.

I'm curious too as keep hearing about double infections.
If herd immunity worked than Brazil and South America wouldn't be the covid mess it is now with double infections and new strains.
Brazils wreckless has affected the entire continent.

My son had it last year and now has it again, both times confirmed by testing. He is probably slightly less ill this time.

DH has had the fucker three times now! April 2020, January this year and again this past week. PCR tested each time. I think he might be some kind of record. 🙄

If immunity wanes after about 6-12 months, this is exactly when we'd see a rise in people getting it a second time.

Might not be as clear here as in other countries though, because we have such high vaccination levels.

Unfortunately, a population like ours at the moment - high levels of dissease circulating in a partially vaxxed population - are exactly conditions which favour the variants which evade vaccines, or become more transmissible, which could include producing a higher viral load to maximise chances of infecting anouther, but which also makes people more ill (note - this is not the only way to change transmissibility)

We don’t know if immunity wanes after 6-12 months

We know antibodies do but you could still have some form of T cell immunity if you had a really bad dose of Covid
Those people getting it again can you get the same Covid variant again.

I think we need to target those people who are more at risk of Covid to really stop it.
This isn’t the elderly or clinically vulnerable
(Dh sailed through Covid and he doesn’t have a spleen which is the organ in your body that has the most ability to help you fight off disease and infections)

But those who are genetically vulnerable.
I think that most people are fine and Covid is an annoying 24 hour cold to some and like horrible flu to others but the people who have been hospitalised or died I can see a familial connection between a lot of them.

Rather trying to save the worlds population by multiple vaccines every few months I think we need to target what makes some families more vulnerable to this virus than others