Ivermectin & India

[LemonSwan]

I feel like I am in a conspiracy theory. I saw people talking about this online and went to google - thinking it was all wrong. But its wasn't. What they were saying appears to me to be right. And it just cant be.

They were saying Ivermectin prevents and treats COVID (we cant get this in the UK btw before anyone accuses me of anti-vax).

In India the Covid situation was running wildly out of control. On the 10th May they offered Ivermectin to all of the adult population. www.forbes.com/sites/siladityaray/2021/05/11/indian-state-will-offer-ivermectin-to-entire-adult-population---even-as-who-warns-against-its-use-as-covid-19-treatment/?sh=1aeac2216d9f

Then on 9th June they ban the mixture of drugs (including Ivermectin) which they were using to treat individuals in hospital.

This mixture appears to contain some of the key drugs advocated by some of the leading clinicians in Critical Care; and Oxford have added Ivermectin to their trials recently.
covid19criticalcare.com/

Now when I look at the google data it may just be a coincidence - particularly the drop in cases as it started to decline a few days before the 10th May. But what I cannot get over is the deaths jump overnight of 5000 people from 9th June to 10th June. I have looked all over for other countries who had something like this and I can only find smooth lines.
(Shown in pics - you can google 'covid in india' to see the data).

I just dont understand this. Can someone explain please because surely this just cannot be right.

Theres too many questions:
Why have I not heard about this Ivermectin before last week,
Why is no one concerned as to which drug withdrawn from treatment caused 5000 deaths overnight in India

Quite a ramble but the more I read the more I feel like I need a tin hat.

Please either pass me a hat or scrumple it up and throw the ball of foil at me.

Thanks in advance

academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab591/6310839

Seems pretty clear ivermectin is no help against covid. I’ve no idea why anyone thought it would be tbh.

Do you have any instincts as to what you think happened overnight on the 9th?

Is it another drug if not the Ivermectin, or do you just think a coincidence?

Dr Clare Craig’s Twitter feed often includes information about ivermectin use, trials and results.
It’s a absolute scandal that this long time proven as safe drug’s effectiveness has been totally suppressed and censored.

5,000 people in India is probably vastly underestimated? Surely it's a data reporting thing?

First thing to ask if results seem odd, is are the results really accurate? Much more likely to be a quirk of how statistics are reported than anything else. Remember how our stats always bounce on a Tuesday/Wednesday compared to Saturday/Sunday. It’ll be something like that most likely, a bottleneck in the reporting system, and it’s just being overinterpeted. Nothing to actually see here.

Or, y’know, get your tin foil hat on if you like! Maybe it was space lizards. But it won’t be ivermectin.

Well there have been days where we have seen sudden death jumps in other countries - like that day China revised its death toll up by exactly 50%. So the deaths jump could be caused by some sort of “accounting” issue rather than being a real jump. At least that would be my first thought.

Also as to why you haven’t heard of Ivermectin before now, I’m not sure as I have and my distinct impression is that people have been arguing over it for quite a long time now!

Ivermectin is a horse wormer. Yes you can get it in the UK. OTC medicine in feed stores. I'm not advising anyone to eat it.

The stats are a glitch in reporting. Back log, computer error, calculating error etc. The only thing that would cause that many deaths in one day as a one off would be human - and that would more likely be covered up that a computer error

and that would more likely be covered up that a computer error
Thats a theory I agree makes sense. If it was an actual conspiracy surely the jump would be covered up. It is unfortunate timing for such an error though.

ATieLikeRichardGere
Tbh I just haven't bothered to keep up to date with covid social media for the last 2-3 months. I have been keeping up to date with main stream news and I never heard it mentioned.

In vitro tests do not necessarily translate to in vivo tests.

Just because something does well in test tubes and petri dishes, it doesn't mean it will work in real life.

sciencebasedmedicine.org/ivermectin-is-the-new-hydroxychloroquine-take-2/

India has many, many health issues, including parasitic infections - it stands to reason that people with poor healthcare and lack of access to sanitary water supplies will benefit from being treated with a drug used to treat parasites.

www.forbes.com/sites/roberthart/2021/06/23/ivermectinwidely-used-to-treat-covid-19-despite-being-unprovenis-being-studied-in-the-uk-as-a-potential-treatment/

www.aap.com.au/no-proof-ivermectin-and-hydroxy-regime-led-to-covid-decline-in-india/

Graphs like yours have been used to 'prove' a variety of things, there are organisations which fact check these things.

Always check your sources. Never believe one source and if every site quotes a study, look for the original study.

YouTube is not research.

covid19criticalcare.com/

The FLCCC is a strange, organisation, flogging ivermectin as a miracle cure, when it has been proven to have little to no benefit to patients being treated for Covid-19

If Mercola is bigging it up, it's not worth a light.

Ivermectin, like hydroxychloroquine, is the latest 'miracle cure', when it is nothing of the sort.

blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2021/06/07/ivermectin-as-a-covid-19-therapy

There is no convincing or conclusive evidence that ivermectin is effective against Covid.

Ivermectin use against Covid is a massive topic of discussion in South Africa too. It doesn't matter to us here as the vaccines are seemingly breaking the link between infections and hospitalisation and deaths. I am glad Oxford is including it in a randomised clinical trial - that's the only way to really be able to say. I personally have empathy for doctors and patients in LMICs, probably terrified of how to treat this with oxygen supplies and bed spaces running low, and very few vaccinated, I'd be using anything - with safe dosage - I could, too.

Ginger

To be clear this is not a copy pasta from some website or copying of anyone elses links. All of the above is from basic google searches with the top results ie 'covid in india', 'ivermectin india' - aka. my own research

The youtube video is one of the top results on google front page for these searches. It is a news broadcast.

Anyway thanks to those who discussed unpatronisingly.

Off to bed but feel free to continue the discussion if you wish obviously.

'Research' is not putting a few search terms in Google and following the first links it shows you - popularity doesn't make it correct.

You've put two links into your first post with two out of context graphs and WION has it's own agenda, like Fox, CNN or Sky.

The high number of deaths in one day are easily identified, they were widely reported. The extra deaths were due to Bihar reporting almost 4000 deaths from the second wave that had been missed:
m.timesofindia.com/india/explained-why-india-reported-6148-covid-deaths-in-a-day-the-highest-ever/amp_articleshow/83391653.cms.

Invermectin is really unlikely to do anything much, because it's used to treat parasites. It's being used, like hydroxychloroquine was, by a couple of groups; they are going as far as creating glossy leaflets their supporters can drop through letterboxes. This is not a few saints sharing information, it is a well funded operation. You have capitalists who want the economy open regardless of the cost (Mercer and De Vos seem to be funding much of this), and they're helped by anarchists and foreign agents who simply enjoy sowing mistrust in authorities. How do you feel about them using you like this OP?

This is chief medical officer Dr. Chris witty article on safety of ivermectin
academic.oup.com/jid/article/202/1/113/888773

There is a YouTube channel by Dr. John Campbell where he explains research based evidence on Ivermectin, which sound really positive. His latest analysis on ivermectin research papers
very informative if anyone want to know more.

Ivermectin is also used by Mexico and other countries and as per above Dr. Chris witty paper it sounds very very safe. Regarding 5000 deaths added on one day it’s a backlog of one state covid death.

CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION is one of the holy tenants of good quality, meaningful and accurate research.

I hope this aids you on your quest to demonstrate that you know better than uk researchers in this field of health care.

docilebritain.com/2021/06/24/the-science-of-ivermectin-and-its-fight-against-covid-19/

This has a lot of information and studies. I find it fascinating that India BAR association want to charge WHO for crimes as well.

That Sky news video is nuts.

Due to my work I know that Ivermectin is so effective in long Covid that Doctors won’t do a placebo trial as it’s unethical
I also know that there are plans to get it licensed for UK use

Should have said SOME doctors feel a placebo trial in unethical

There's a good factual summary from Gavi (the worldwide vaccine alliance) here on Ivermectin. In short:

While some other studies did appear to show benefits of ivermectin, many did not. These were summarised by the National Institutes of Health, showing severe limitations arising from small sample sizes and problems with study design.

Both the National Institutes of Health and the European Medicines Agency judged, on the basis of these studies, that there is currently insufficient evidence to support the use of ivermectin in treatment of COVID-19.

More studies are underway. A large, multicentre trial began in February to determine the effectiveness of ivermectin as well as metformin (an anti-diabetes medication) and fluvoxamine (an antidepressant) in preventing COVID-19 disease progression.

It would therefore be premature to conclude absolutely that ivermectin has no place in COVID-19 treatment. On the basis of current evidence, however, its use cannot be recommended.

@RedToothBrush

CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION is one of the holy tenants of good quality, meaningful and accurate research.

I hope this aids you on your quest to demonstrate that you know better than uk researchers in this field of health care.

This.

Just because one thing follows another, it doesn't mean that the second phenomenon was caused by the first.

@Hoppinggreen

Due to my work I know that Ivermectin is so effective in long Covid that Doctors won’t do a placebo trial as it’s unethical I also know that there are plans to get it licensed for UK use

Just so that none of us might assume this is complete, total and utter bollocks, can you please cite the studies where doctors won't do a placebo trial 'cos unethical?

@Hoppinggreen

Should have said SOME doctors feel a placebo trial in unethical

It isn't in a placebo trial. It's being tested against an influenza antiviral favipiravar: www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-06-23-ivermectin-be-investigated-possible-treatment-covid-19-oxford-s-principle-trial#:~:text=From%20today%2C%20ivermectin%20is%20being,in%20other%20non%2Dhospital%20settings.

I've never met a doctor who thinks any drug should be used without having a trial to confirm if it actually works or not. You know some strange people.

The Dark Horse podcast (by Bret Weinstein & Heather Haying) on YouTube has I think 2 episodes where it covers Ivermectin and in fact I think they’ve gone on to further discuss it but on a different platform due to being censored. Joe Rogan has also had Bret Weinstein on his podcast/show specifically to discuss Ivermectin.