Backdating symptoms start to limit isolation

[sirfredfredgeorge]

So Andrew Marr caught covid
www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57640550

Initial symptoms were not cough/fever/lack of smell, so decided to carry on with life running errands outdoors etc. after 2 (wasteful) LFT's

Sometime later, he decided to take a PCR, but then backdated the start of isolation to these other symptoms, releasing him from quarantine earlier than would be policy.

My understanding of the rules this is wrong - the 10 days from first symptoms are only if you do the test and isolate whilst waiting for results, not if you spend your time running errands and get out of isolation.

So is this legal to tell track & trace that you had a bit of "summer cold" five or six days before you actually test thus releasing you almost immediately?

But in the middle of hay-fever season, it seemed nothing at all ominous.
For me this is a key comment. I've had hayfever all my life so symptoms such as a headache, sneezing, sort throat, even a chesty cough because my asthma is triggered by allergens, is nothing unusual for me at this time of year! It does worry me that I could be walking round spreading Covid but I lateral flow test twice a week and if I went for a PCR test every time I had such symptoms I'd be there most days! I've even stopped tracking hayfever symptoms in the Zoe app because it kept offering me to go for a test.
If I didn't normally have hayfever and came down with those symptoms I guess it would be more of a warning sign.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/self-isolation-and-treatment/how-long-to-self-isolate/

"If you test positive, your self-isolation period includes the day your symptoms started (or the day you had the test, if you do not have symptoms) and the next 10 full days."

No mention of whether you were isolating before testing positive.

He didn’t make up when symptoms started, he’s not trying to trick the system, however he has potentially infected a few other people, but again he didn’t have the 3 main symptoms at that point.

What is the science behind the 10 days? When I last looked for data it said the vast majority of infections that cause symptoms occurred withing 5-7 days of transmission so I'd say a huge number of oeiole are still out and about when infectious and needlessly isolating when they're prob already not at the end.

The 10 days isn't a punishment based on whether you abided by the rules or not ?

Its 10 days from onset of symptoms because that is when you're most infectious - its designed to reduce spread. So regardless of whether he isolated or not, once the 10 days is up, he's no longer considered infectious and can go about as normal.

My son woke up one day with a congested nose & blood shot eyes I just thought it was hay fever, 3 days later he got a temperature, tested him & he was positive. When track & trace contacted me I told them about his congestion & eyes & they said that his isolation date starts from then & they said that I would be surprised on what different symptoms people get.

Its 10 days from onset of symptoms because that is when you're most infectious

Yes, but the symptoms he decided were the start of the infection, were not the symptoms that made him get a test, because getting a test requires you to isolate as soon as you choose to get a test. He failed to do this, so therefore did not consider the symptoms covid.

There's no reason to believe they were covid, other infections exist, indeed the summer cold he suspected was entirely likely to be the case.

It's easy to assume any sort of "unwellness" you had many days before testing positive was covid, it should not release you from isolation because there is no evidence that it was covid.

But he didn't decide, test and trace did - presumably because, just like the poster above, he described his symptoms in the days before and they made the decision that they were likely to be covid symptoms and gave him a date his isolation would end. Presumably because they have the relevant information and authority to make that judgement call.

@CroydianSlip

What is the science behind the 10 days? When I last looked for data it said the vast majority of infections that cause symptoms occurred withing 5-7 days of transmission so I'd say a huge number of oeiole are still out and about when infectious and needlessly isolating when they're prob already not at the end.

It’s an average iirc. There has been reliable evidence showing a fairly rapid onset of symptoms within days from contact with a known case and then there have been outliers up to that can be reasonably attributed to contact with a case up to 28 days previously. These figures haven’t really changed from the beginning of all this in Wuhan. I think the spread during the inital lockdowns and infected cruise ships provided the main sources of measuring incubation periods.

I think some of the outliers were based on falso info though weren't they? People saying they hadn't been anywhere and therefore couldn't have come into contact, forgetting to mention the overnight stay a friend's house etc?

Ould be good to know of the more recent data shows any different as the virus and variants change and large numbers have been affected.

One issue with this is that the number of people who then get tracked and traced and made to isolate is increased. If you have 'backdated' your symptoms, this is very unfair on people who spent time with you before you really had infectious symptoms.

"the 10 days from first symptoms are only if you do the test and isolate whilst waiting for results, not if you spend your time running errands and get out of isolation."

This is so funny! No, isolation is 10 days from start of symptoms, no matter what you actually end up doing during that time

I guess it depends what symptoms they mean. If they mean the symptoms that make you get a test or the symptoms that happened when you were first unwell.

This happened to me. I started with cold like symptoms on a Monday, didn’t think anything of it (this was in December & I’ve got young kids in nursery, I get colds 24/7). A couple days later on Wednesday, I was in IKEA & complained to OH that I was really warm & headachy. Took my temp back home, 36.5.. took DD to nursery the next day on Thursday as usual, still felt groggy. Realised at 3pm that I couldn’t smell anything. Sniffed alsorts & nothing. So OH collected DD & I booked a test for the following day on Friday. It was positive. I explained my systems to Track & Trace & they told me to count from day one of my cold. At this point, it was Saturday and I was already 6 days into my 10 day isolation.

I didn’t ignore my symptoms. It felt like a moderate cold. I had no cough, no fever & no loss of smell/taste until Thursday. I isolated from 3pm that day but my results were not back until Saturday afternoon. I didn’t dodge isolation, I had zero clue I had it! I did feel bad I’d been to IKEA and the shops once I realised but it’s just life. You can’t assume every cold is covid, or rather, you didn’t back in December. Tests were extremely short & when you have young kids in nursery, you genuinely are ill all the bloody time. The delta variant seems to be presenting as a cold, so now I’d probably think to check it..

Don’t be so judgy 🙄

I don't know why you're so worked up about this, it's been known since the start that the 3 symptoms that require you to test are not the only symptoms.

If we're told to only test for those symptoms of course people are milling about with other less known symptoms and potentially spreading it.
I doubt he has backdated his symptoms, it would have been test and trace as they obviously know of a lot more symptoms and the patterns of the onset of infection.
A friend had an awful headache for a few days and then on day 4 got the loss of taste - took a test and it was positive. When contacted by T&T they decided that day 1 of the headache was day 1 of his symptoms so therefore day 1 of his isolation period (even though he had been out and about on those headache days).

I only had to isolate for 5 days as the headache I thought was my usual period headache turned out to be Covid. I only found out because I did a random test at work that came back positive. I had none of the main symptoms.

I'm in the same position now. They've told me to backdate from symptoms (that weren't symptoms) meaning my family have to isolate for 5 days less than the people I saw at the weekend.

Tbh that explains some of the random isolation periods people have been assigned through the app. That along with the time it can take to get a test result (postal tests and inconclusive results needing another test was my best guess).

A friend of mine felt unwell a few days ago, head ache and just generally unwell. Took a PCR a few days later which was positive. Test and trace said the isolation had to start from the test day because the symptoms weren’t clearly one of the 3 covid ones and so it couldn’t be certain that’s when the infection began.

A friend was in a similar situation a couple of weeks ago

She suffers badly with hay fever every year - hay fever symptoms started. Took hay fever meds which helped so she didn’t think anything of it. She then developed a fever got a test and it was positive.

Test and trace asked her about her symptoms and decided that what she thought was hay fever was probably the start of Covid symptoms and backdated her isolation period to the start of the hay fever symptoms. She wasn’t convinced though - she’s had severe hay fever for years, her usual meds helped so she thinks the Covid symptoms started when the temperature developed so isolated for 10 days from then

Thanks for the anecdotes! I guess it must depend on who you get on the T&T call, and maybe how you describe your symptoms, it's clear that some people do back date to the more vague symptoms and others don't.

So is this legal to tell track & trace that you had a bit of "summer cold" five or six days before you actually test thus releasing you almost immediately?

He didn't though. Although the article is a bit unclear.

Monday - he was exhausted
Tuesday - he thought he had a cold
Wednesday - he thought he had a bad cold, had 2 negative LFT tests so carried on as normal but went for PCR test as precaution
Thursday - he became very ill, the PCR came back as positive and was told to isolate until the next Friday, 10 days after his first symptoms on the Tuesday.

That's just one day earlier than the positive PCR test. Occam's razor suggests that the cold symptoms the day before were most likely the start of COVID rather than a separate infection/allergy. If it had actually been 5/6 days, you would have a point.

Hi. My husband has just tested positive for covid.
We've been isolating since his test on Weds.
He had hayfever symptoms since Monday but not the 3 main covid symptoms as such. Did a lateral flow Weds & positive so he went for a PCR & we've all isolated since.

When is my isolation up? Is it Friday 9th?

What did track and trace say?

Yep Friday, they've been in touch now.