Non vaccinated abroad - doesn't make sense to me

[makemineadoubleshot]

Please can someone explain to me why the unvaccinated are having to isolate in Portugal for 14 days?

Example:

Family of 2 fully vaccinated adults, 1 unvaccinated 14 year old, one unvaccinated 9 year old. Family cannot go due to unvaccinated 14 year old.

If both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can still transmit the virus then why can't the unvaccinated teen go with a negative test result? (and do the vaccinated parents still have to take a test to show they're negative?)

Surely a negative result whether you're vaccinated or not is the safest option all round?

People are still getting ill after being double jabbed - so could be travelling as carriers

There are also unvaccinated people who have covid antibodies post infection yet they would still have to quarantine for 14 days even through they're 'safe' if not safer than the vaccinated

So four vaccinated mates in their late 20's can go to Portugal and do what they please for a fortnight (yep - you know what I mean )yet a family with teens cannot go for a week in a quiet resort to spend a week by the pool. That's correct isn't it?

Nothing makes sense to me anymore

Nothing makes sense to me anymore

Presumably you don't have a degree in epidemiology?

Maybe it's connected - just a thought.

Nope - I don't! You certainly got me there hey?

So four late 20's shagging their way around the bars in Portugal is safer than a 14 year old girl sunning herself by the pool with her family - as long as the 20 odd year olds are vaccinated. Is that correct? Or am I still misunderstanding it?

To make people get their vaccinations? Or should I say ‘encourage’ 😉

That or it’s their governments way of keeping visitor numbers lower without causing uproar in the desperate tourism sector. They need the money but do they need it so much to risk allowing potentially infected Brits in to spend it?

Well if you come from Portugal to here you have to quarantine for 10 days (unless you pay to Test and Release on day 5) whether you're vaccinated or not. So it doesn't seem that unreasonable.

@makemineadoubleshot

Nope - I don't! You certainly got me there hey?

So four late 20's shagging their way around the bars in Portugal is safer than a 14 year old girl sunning herself by the pool with her family - as long as the 20 odd year olds are vaccinated. Is that correct? Or am I still misunderstanding it?

Yes, that seems to be correct. As I don’t have an epidemiology degree either I’ll leave it to those that do, and are presumably advising the Portuguese government.

@makemineadoubleshot

Nope - I don't! You certainly got me there hey?

So four late 20's shagging their way around the bars in Portugal is safer than a 14 year old girl sunning herself by the pool with her family - as long as the 20 odd year olds are vaccinated. Is that correct? Or am I still misunderstanding it?

You seem to know some classy late twenty year olds. Ever thought it might be just the circles you move in who live like that? Each country is deciding its own regulations for the health and welfare of its own nationals. It would have been an idea had the British govt done the same at some point.

It's very unlikely you can transmit the virus when vaccinated, not impossible if symptomatic but there is still a requirement to test before departure which is quite enough IMO.
I don't know what you've got against 20 year olds but the vast majority only got the opportunity for a first vaccine last week so unlikely to be able to travel freely.
Children can't be vaccinated and are the most exposed group of all due to mixing in school so most likely to be infected. I'd be far more cautious about children carrying covid than young adults.

Vaccination massively decreases the chance of being infected at all - so the majority of people who are vaccinated aren't a transmission risk.

The minority of people who are double vaccinated who then do go on to be infected are significantly less likely to transmit it onwards to others - the modellers currently seem to be using 40-60%.

It's all about overall balance of risk (including to economies as well as reducing to a manageable level but not eliminating covid coming in for most countries now - excluding issues with Delta.)

Wow! I genuinely don't have anything against late 20 year olds (I wish I still was one!) - and fair play to them whatever they want to do - although not the ones in certain circles, as they that don't behave like that!

I just feel for families with teens - it just seems so unfair. I'm really not looking to have mud slung at me, just questioning what seems to be yet another confusing rule

Hi OP, negative tests seem more sensible to me too and I'm doubly vaccinated.

But it isn't confusing. It's totally logical. The unvaccinated are always more likely to a) get Covid b) spread Covid. The young unvaccinated account for the current increase in cases. And are more likely to be asymptomatic to boot.
Ergo, countries aren't going to want unvaccinated, young Brits. Or unvaccinated, young anybody.
That's why many are insisting on PCR prior to travel.

All EU countries (as part of the Green Pass initiative) are asking for negative PCRs for the unvaccinated.

a test is not 100% secure neither, I can take the test now and as soon as I leave get infected ,

it's about risks, a vaccinated person is less risky than an unvaccinated one.
Portugal has taken the decision o needing to self isolate, others accept the pcr.

The problem is that other countries are vaccinating those aged 12+ whereas we’re only vaccinating 18+.

@EasterIssland

a test is not 100% secure neither, I can take the test now and as soon as I leave get infected ,

it's about risks, a vaccinated person is less risky than an unvaccinated one.
Portugal has taken the decision o needing to self isolate, others accept the pcr.

True. That's why I'd be wary of going somewhere that is asking for a PCR on exit as well. Don't want to end up in enforced quarantine at own expense!

@makemineadoubleshot

Wow! I genuinely don't have anything against late 20 year olds (I wish I still was one!) - and fair play to them whatever they want to do - although not the ones in certain circles, as they that don't behave like that!

I just feel for families with teens - it just seems so unfair. I'm really not looking to have mud slung at me, just questioning what seems to be yet another confusing rule

It would be better not to start threads if you're going you get so sensitive over very mild responses. Perhaps you could write to Antonio Costa instead, at least he is responsible for the policy.

People who have been double jabbed are much less likely to catch covid, and much less likely to transmit covid if they do catch it. That's why many countries are happy that vaccinated people pose a lower risk than unvaccinated people. Those who've had natural infection have a wider range of antibody responses than from vaccines and would require blood tests as proof, generally that might be considered invasive. Unvaccinated, including children, pose higher risks. Those are all just facts that have been used in deciding policy.

There are people who need to travel to visit family and they should be able to do so. I'm honestly really not sure why anybody has such a desperate need to sit by a pool in a particular country that necessitates having"feel for" them. Other pools exist, restrictions on travel won't be forever, sit by a different pool for one week or do something else to build memories as a family.

But some 14 yr olds will be flirting with the locals at the teenage discos.

So lines are drawn up not based on individual behaviours.

If it helps I was "oh bugger" we have a 12 year old, which would mean X1 quarantine hence we can't go as a family until they are vaccinated or rules change.

Average 20 yr old won't be fully vaccinated until towards end of summer holidays so it's not great for anyone unless you are vaccinated adults solo or have all under 11s.

Nothing we can do about it.

It's the same for Guernsey - they are reopening their borders this week and if you had your second vaccine more than two weeks before you travel you don't have to test or isolate.

Jersey I think you still have to test on arrival but not have to isolate until the result.

IOM also opening but not exactly sure what their procedures are.

@makemineadoubleshot

Please can someone explain to me why the unvaccinated are having to isolate in Portugal for 14 days?

Example:

Family of 2 fully vaccinated adults, 1 unvaccinated 14 year old, one unvaccinated 9 year old. Family cannot go due to unvaccinated 14 year old.

If both the vaccinated and unvaccinated can still transmit the virus then why can't the unvaccinated teen go with a negative test result? (and do the vaccinated parents still have to take a test to show they're negative?)

Surely a negative result whether you're vaccinated or not is the safest option all round?

People are still getting ill after being double jabbed - so could be travelling as carriers

There are also unvaccinated people who have covid antibodies post infection yet they would still have to quarantine for 14 days even through they're 'safe' if not safer than the vaccinated

So four vaccinated mates in their late 20's can go to Portugal and do what they please for a fortnight (yep - you know what I mean )yet a family with teens cannot go for a week in a quiet resort to spend a week by the pool. That's correct isn't it?

Nothing makes sense to me anymore

It doesn't make any sense op. They are creating a two tier society, on purpose.

@Whyevencare. they are creating a two tier society, on purpose. Rtft.
Who do you mean by "they"?
It's the Portuguese government (and others) making this rule. Because double vaccinated people are extremely unlikely to transmit the virus and unvaccinated people are a high risk to their citizens.