Increasing intolerance of differing viewpoints relating to pandemic response.

[WeirdArchitecture]

A bit of an off the wall comment but I think it'd be great if we could all have differing opinions and actually tolerate each other.

I've more or less quit reading in this part of the forum because of the lack of tolerance. I get it, we've all had a shit year and the world is still reeling from it, but the anger and spiteful, passive-aggressive shitshows online are painful to watch.

I'm comfortably on the fence with many thoughts about covid and how it has been handled. I expect my feelings will become more pronounced with time and some more experience going forward.

Opinions seem so heavily polarised nowadays. On the one hand people are scared of asking simple questions about vaccines for fear of getting napalmed (is this a new category in itself? We have pro vaxx, anti vaxx and now 'bully' vaxx) and those who are concerned about ending restrictions too soon are similarly pounced on.

Why the extreme anger and polarisation if someone disagrees with you?
Have we become so tense and myopic with this pandemic that we have forgotten how to accept not everyone is exactly the same as us?

Where do we draw the line here?
Wouldn't it be more helpful and productive all round if we learned some tolerance of differing viewpoints?

I bring this up as after my jab yesterday I was doing a bit of googling and discovered some great covid related talk on a US site called 'metafilter'. I was shocked at how tolerant and open they were regarding differing viewpoints and thoughts relating to the pandemic. For example, when anyone asked for advice about vaccine hesitancy, the general response was to gently lead them into good sources of info and most people (who were pro vaxx) expressed a sympathetic understanding of why people were concerned.

The problem is many poster’s tendencies to head towards an eristic form of dialogue.
That is to say, most people are more bothered about being right and ‘winning’ an argument than they are about learning the truth and staying open minded.

I agree with everything you say. It really grinds my gears. And if I hear one more person proclaim that another poster is ‘stupid’ for having a different view point to them, I am going to lose my shit!

People are like this about everything though.

Before Covid we had Brexit.

Most people appear to be completely incapable of being able to see things from anyone else’s view point or even acknowledge that it is ok to believe/ feel/ want/ need something different from other people.

A large proportion of society appear to believe that they are right and everyone who doesn’t agree/ think/ want/ need/ feel like them is wrong/ an idiot.

We are, by nature, a very intolerant species.

I personally think that if people can get so wound up by having their views challenged, that maybe they’re not really secure in what they believe anyway.
If your opinions stand up to scrutiny, and you can have what you believe questioned, and you’ve kept an open mind but still retain the same views afterwards then great.
If you get your mind changed, we’ll then you may have just learned something new. Also a win.

It also amuses me that people think the best way to convince other people of something and bring them around to their way of thinking is by insulting them.

Sorry to post again but I find this topic interesting!

I think the Dunning-Kruger effect has an impact too. The more intelligent seem to be more aware that they don’t know everything.
Mr Shakespeare puts it better than I do:

“A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool”

I teach 5-6 year olds and we explicitly teach them how to listen to a viewpoint, state politely whether they agree or disagree and then offer their own viewpoint.

Many adults would benefit from being taught this!

This is mumsnet. It has always been like this about everything.

I think it's just pure exhaustion at this point? I think people cling to their polarised opinion to stave off differing opinions and being forced to think too hard.

I don't think many people have changed much. Most people are tolerant enough. But most thread that get very strong response normally have reasons why, imo. Either the poster is trying to spread misinformation in disguise, or blatantly intent to cause inflammatory responce from posters.

Couldn't agree more OP. It's a shame really.

There's also the fact that we never used to be able to witness so many differing points of view prior to the internet. I think that has had a dramatic impact, regardless of geographical location or politics.

We have this ginormous source of data and opinion at our fingertips and as a species perhaps we were't emotionally prepared for that.

I have occasionally seen comments that have momentarily enraged me, but have got into the habit of asking myself why, and what good it would do to argue. Some like to call it debate, and debate has always had the potential to become heated, but I think the sheer magnitude of online info causes us to blow a fuse.

I also think a lot of people (unless they are purposely aggressive) just want their opinion to feel heard, valued.

I noticed once when using reddit that people can really lay into each other if they disagree, and when that happened to me I replied that whilst I was opposed to their opinion I fully valued it. They replied kindly in return - but it would've been so, so easy for that to have imploded into something ugly.

Well said, OP. The maddening thing is that all this is a new phenomenon and there are no solutions set in stone. A year and a half ago covid didn't exist and the vaccines are still officially experimental.

I think a lot of people are threatened by different views points because they would then have to challenge their own view of the world and that it might be wrong.

They also like to think people who think the same as then them are nice and good and those with opposing views are bad. To actually acknowledge that someone might also be good but have polar views or beliefs is alien. You only have to see the political threads on here to see that in action.

I can see a varied view point and listen to LBC regularly (good or bad, I don't know!?)

Can't read a thread by an anti-vaxer or I'm fed up let's open poster

They don't want to discuss only roar their point across

Sometimes it’s just an opportunity to vent and have your voice heard, nothing more, nothing less.
We don’t have to tolerate other people’s opinions…it’s fine to just want a good old fashioned, heated debate. And sometimes being a little contrary can be a good way to get something off your chest.

Also, I don’t get this ‘we must be nice at all times’ approach. We are human and sometimes we are just assholes. Rather than expecting others to be congenial, we should work on ourselves not being so butthurt when others disagree and are argumentative. There’s a real skill in being able to not be offended by everything, including other people’s perceived lack of tolerance.

I’m probably one of those you’re talking about OP. I’m not stupid - I hold professional qualifications and have a career in a field that requires research and open discussion of ideas. I have wondered why I’m now open to a fairly petty scrap with someone online when I wouldn’t have entertained such a thing a year ago.
I honestly think it’s because I am angry about the pandemic in general and because I’m scared. I can’t fathom Why people do not follow the experts’ advice in the face of something so terrifying and unknown. It makes me angry that people selfishly do what they want rather than following the rules for the greater good. Those of us that are making sacrifices to try and keep everyone safe then feel like the mugs. I’m burnt out by trying to keep on top of ideas and research and rules but I’m still doing my best to be a responsible citizen.

The online scraps are not a trait I like or admire in myself tbh but it’s how I feel and it’s one of the effects the pandemic is having on me at this point.

True, but apart from those with what we might consider 'extreme' views, I think most people are just concerned, anxious or stressed.

I once asked questions about the safety of Astrazeneca a few months ago and received a lot of pressure and insults. I am intrigued at what someone must be feeling to react so peculiarly.

There are many things I disagree with on here, stuff that horrifies me sometimes, but I can't change anyone's opinion by attacking or insulting them. It doesn't work, not with flat earthers or anything else.

I would ask myself why I was so affected by that viewpoint, even if I consider it to be bonkers. Why does it bother me so much?
I find it is far more useful to let people know you don't share their opinion but are cool with theirs.

Perhaps some become enraged because there's a health issue and misinformation is dangerous. But this is the world we live in now, and like it or not, we can't change people. We can only engage with tolerance and hope someone might notice or listen.
Ridiculing people is never, ever productive. It really is pointless.

No, I don't think we must be nice at all times.
I am talking about self awareness and respecting someone's difference.

When people are afraid to ask questions about a concern, the tilt of the forum has gone to shit, regardless.

@PacifyLulu

I’m probably one of those you’re talking about OP. I’m not stupid - I hold professional qualifications and have a career in a field that requires research and open discussion of ideas. I have wondered why I’m now open to a fairly petty scrap with someone online when I wouldn’t have entertained such a thing a year ago. I honestly think it’s because I am angry about the pandemic in general and because I’m scared. I can’t fathom Why people do not follow the experts’ advice in the face of something so terrifying and unknown. It makes me angry that people selfishly do what they want rather than following the rules for the greater good. Those of us that are making sacrifices to try and keep everyone safe then feel like the mugs. I’m burnt out by trying to keep on top of ideas and research and rules but I’m still doing my best to be a responsible citizen.

The online scraps are not a trait I like or admire in myself tbh but it’s how I feel and it’s one of the effects the pandemic is having on me at this point.

I'm with you, and I really do feel what you say. I wonder though about how much good it does us to concern ourselves too much with debate when we are already burned out, it's about taking care of yourself first, and making sure you are safe. People will always boil our piss and disagree, no matter what our views are. How far do we go in trying to insist upon a point? We can only state it and hope someone considers it.

OP, you’re probably right and I wish I had your composure and restraint at the minute.

I don't totally agree that this forum has gone to shit, I still see people being extremely sympathetic to someone who seems genuinely unwell and consumed with anxiety. There are many nice people, but others with stronger voice just stand out more, I think.

@Wherediditgo There is a perfect example of that on the Laura Dodsworth thread.

@roguetomato

I don't totally agree that this forum has gone to shit, I still see people being extremely sympathetic to someone who seems genuinely unwell and consumed with anxiety. There are many nice people, but others with stronger voice just stand out more, I think.

I mean when a forum is mostly antagonistic it goes to shit, I can't say whether this has happened on MN as I don't visit as often as I might. I have noticed a lot of intolerant disagreement here recently though.

And again, it doesn't have to be either-or, does it? We can't be nice and accepting all of the time, nor should we be aggressive. But many people's opinions are definitely put down and ganged up on.

I do notice a lot of polarisation round and about in general. People's comments seemingly policed or misread. Of course it has been around for along time, but it has obviously accelerated since covid.

Of course it doesn't have to be either - or. But most of the thread I've seen being like what you say is sort of meant to be, or can't be helped. Because there are some black and white facts, and misinformation and disinformation is so abundant, and there can't be an in between opinion in some cases.

@roguetomato

Of course it doesn't have to be either - or. But most of the thread I've seen being like what you say is sort of meant to be, or can't be helped. Because there are some black and white facts, and misinformation and disinformation is so abundant, and there can't be an in between opinion in some cases.

I know. I guess I am saying if I respond to someone with an insult I can definitely rest assured they won't listen to me.